Question re relationships with trans people

[2021ismyyear]

Twitter is full of people that are prepared to defend trans rights at any cost. I’ve seen some hideous things written about people that believe otherwise. The insults against jk Rowling were hard to read. We saw it the other day when maya won her appeal case. People over ran social media with insults against “TERFS” etc.

I assume these people would have zero issue dating a trans person in that case? If trans women are women and sex doesn’t matter and it’s widely accepted that you can switch gender, then will those people start dating trans people? Will we see more women dating trans men for example? Will tinder do away with any search filters?

If not… why?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

From the trans dating paper I quoted below:

such that participants were disproportionately willing to date trans men, but not trans women, even if doing so was counter to their self-identified sexual and gender identity (e.g., a lesbian dating a trans man but not a trans woman).

Why would that be, CuriousPanda?

It means nothing. Show a lesbian a picture of a passing trans woman and a passing trans man, and she's 99% going to pick the trans woman.

What me and virtually all of trans people are trying to argue all along is that people should be free to live their lives however they want with no fear of discrimination or punishment.

And what happens when what someone wants clashes with someone else's rights. So women's right to single sex spaces.
What if I want to live my life as a 7 year old and go to school with my nephew every day. Do you support me in what I want? Even though its not fair on the class of 7 year olds.
What if I want to compete in the paralympics even though I'm able bodied? Do you support what I want? Even though I've got a clear advantage?

People can't always have what they want.

There are pink news articles on the murders, gang rapes of. Apologies for the term. SAME SEX ATTRACTED women in South Africa.

Your claim that the fight is for same GENDER attraction. And that the concept of sex based attraction was invented in what. 2015. By horrible people.

What are you writing?! Same sex attraction gets you killed all over the world. You deny that is the cause. It's about gender not biology.

@NiceGerbil

' I can guarantee you there's no mention whatsoever of "the right to be same-sex attracted" prior to 2015, right around the time your anti-trans panic and weaponization of gay people began.'

2015??

Do you genuinely believe what you're typing?!

Yes. The gay liberation movement never used the phrase "the right to be same-sex attracted". It's just a GC neologism.

The gay liberation movement never used the phrase "the right to be same-sex attracted".

What do you think they were fighting for?

What do you think

HOMOSEXUAL means for god's sake

It means same sex attracted by definition.

@OldCrone

The gay liberation movement never used the phrase "the right to be same-sex attracted".

What do you think they were fighting for?

The right to be free to love people of the same gender.

@NiceGerbil

What do you think

HOMOSEXUAL means for god's sake

It means same sex attracted by definition.

And what do you think sexual attraction is based on? Gametes and chromosomes, or external physical characteristics?

Funny. I used to care for a man in his 90s. We spent a lovely afternoon once discussing his upbringing and history. More than once he referred to himself as being same sex attracted. (He said he didn't like the word gay as it had been used as a slur against him so often) Which wasn't something he could openly discuss when he was a young man.
Yet you claim this phrase was invented in 2015. Weird then that he was using it. Its unlikely he had latched on to modern language rather than using the words he always had.

Tell me again how the fight for gay rights is not and never has been able laws criminalising. Male adult humans having sex with other male adult humans.

I'm um. I don't know what to say.

Those laws are about sex. Not gender.

The outrage about people with penises having sex with other people with penises. Is a particularly male concern. And is encoded in societies laws. Plenty of mainstream religions.

Since before 2015.

You're going to need to accept that because it's a well known fact/ truth.

The right to be free to love people of the same gender.

What do you mean by gender?

@OldCrone

The right to be free to love people of the same gender.

What do you mean by gender?

Social identities, such as "man" and "woman"

WTAF am I reading on here tonight?

I really hope there aren't lurkers.

Seriously, being transgender is NOT a SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

Being LGB ARE SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS and protected characteristics. They relate to, you guessed it, SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!

T falls under gender reasignment, a totally different protected characteristic, related to gender. A social construct.

Sex is also a protected characteristic. You know what that means? Women by sex have equal rights to both of the other groups.

You hear that right? EQUAL.

It is neither homophobic, nor transphobic for women to assert their rights where they are unfairly trampled on by other vulnerable groups.

Similarly LBG people have the right not to chose sexual partners based on gender, but sex.

@NiceGerbil

Tell me again how the fight for gay rights is not and never has been able laws criminalising. Male adult humans having sex with other male adult humans.

I'm um. I don't know what to say.

Those laws are about sex. Not gender.

The outrage about people with penises having sex with other people with penises. Is a particularly male concern. And is encoded in societies laws. Plenty of mainstream religions.

Since before 2015.

You're going to need to accept that because it's a well known fact/ truth.

They are about gender, as imposed on people on the basis of sex.

Homophobic oppressors have that in common with you -- you both have no regard for self-identification, and force people to adhere to the categories you impose on them.

'And what do you think sexual attraction is based on? Gametes and chromosomes, or external physical characteristics?'

We're mammals fgs! External physical characteristics? You mean hair clothes? What do you mean?

External physical characteristics = at the most basic. Penis/ vulva.

If it's not about bodies then... Why is mainstream porn all about bodies?

@Regularsizedrudy

Not really sure what you’re trying to say? You think people that defend trans rights won’t date them? Erm well I’m sure some would and some wouldn’t, it doesn’t change what they are saying about their human rights. I would date a trans man if they were funny and good looking.

If a straight male genuinely believes that TWAW, surely he must consider them part of his dating pool. If not, why not?

@chickenyhead

WTAF am I reading on here tonight?

I really hope there aren't lurkers.

Seriously, being transgender is NOT a SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

Being LGB ARE SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS and protected characteristics. They relate to, you guessed it, SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!

T falls under gender reasignment, a totally different protected characteristic, related to gender. A social construct.

Sex is also a protected characteristic. You know what that means? Women by sex have equal rights to both of the other groups.

You hear that right? EQUAL.

It is neither homophobic, nor transphobic for women to assert their rights where they are unfairly trampled on by other vulnerable groups.

Similarly LBG people have the right not to chose sexual partners based on gender, but sex.

Sexual orientation is based on external physical characteristics, not gametes and chromosomes.

And external physical characteristics can be altered.

TWAW is the biggest lie I have ever heard.

How does a person know what their 'gender' is @CuriousPanda?

So it isnt based on an idea in someone's head, but the junk in the trunk? @CuriousPanda

@NiceGerbil

'And what do you think sexual attraction is based on? Gametes and chromosomes, or external physical characteristics?'

We're mammals fgs! External physical characteristics? You mean hair clothes? What do you mean?

External physical characteristics = at the most basic. Penis/ vulva.

If it's not about bodies then... Why is mainstream porn all about bodies?

I mean physical features. Body shape, facial structure, breasts, etc. These are some of the features that drive sexual attraction.

And each of these, trans people can alter to match their gender identity.

'They are about gender, as imposed on people on the basis of sex.

Homophobic oppressors have that in common with you -- you both have no regard for self-identification, and force people to adhere to the categories you impose on them.'

Ok so

You argue that the laws globally/ through history banning same sex acts especially between men. Are not about the sex organs of the people who have sex.

You specifically state that anyone who takes gay/ lesbian to mean homosexual aka same sex attracted. Has the mindset as men in South Africa who kidnap torture gang rape murder. Lesbians who are out.

That's a strong stance to take.

And external physical characteristics can be altered.

But the vast majority of trans people don't alter them. Unless we are talking about clothes and hair.

@OldCrone

How does a person know what their 'gender' is *@CuriousPanda*?

If you've never questioned it, and never thought about being anything except what you were assigned at birth (female, girl, woman, etc.), then you're most likely cis, and that's it, you're the gender you were assigned birth.

And each of these, trans people can alter to match their gender identity.

How do people decide on a gender identity?