Question re relationships with trans people

[2021ismyyear]

Twitter is full of people that are prepared to defend trans rights at any cost. I’ve seen some hideous things written about people that believe otherwise. The insults against jk Rowling were hard to read. We saw it the other day when maya won her appeal case. People over ran social media with insults against “TERFS” etc.

I assume these people would have zero issue dating a trans person in that case? If trans women are women and sex doesn’t matter and it’s widely accepted that you can switch gender, then will those people start dating trans people? Will we see more women dating trans men for example? Will tinder do away with any search filters?

If not… why?

@Barheim

You'd think trans people would be onboard with abolishing the whole idea of gender stereotypes, not trying to reinforce them. I find it baffling.

I'm wholly against gender stereotypes. Most trans people are, as people attempt to force them onto us pre-transition, then attempt to force them onto us while transitioning, then continue to pressure us to conform to them after transitioning.

But if you're against them, then why can't people just be whatever sex they are and do whatever they like to do and dress or present however they like to dress without muddling this up with confused ideas of being a different sex because of interests/ preferences etc?

Or, do you have a definition of what you mean by gender that you'll share that isn't based on arbitrary stereotypes, so that we can try to understand what you mean?

And the really serious conundrum.

Why not set up things for same gender attracted People?
Rather than redefining the meaning of gay/ lesbian. In order to get entry to things that were set up by and for homosexuals?
And in the process show huge disrespect to those who have and continue to fight for an end to the enormous harm done to homosexual people all over the world?
And where is the the focus and activism from those who redefined gay/ lesbian to mean same gender attracted around the terrible oppression of fellow gay men and lesbians around the world?

Why is denying that gay men and lesbians are same sex attracted rather than same gender attracted a key thing? Changing the widely accepted words around homosexuality to mean something completely different? And then say yep. This stuff is for us. If you don't agree you're a bigot..?

THAT is straight up homophobia.

When it would be much more straightforward and inclusive to set up alternative things for same gender attracted people and no one would have any kind of issue with that?

I'm wholly against gender stereotypes. Most trans people are, as people attempt to force them onto us pre-transition, then attempt to force them onto us while transitioning, then continue to pressure us to conform to them after transitioning

And, if you are against gender stereotypes (as I am), then please can you explain what you do think it is that makes someone a man or woman, if you're saying it isn't sex either? What do the words "man" and "woman" signify to you? What do they describe? How do you define them?

@NiceGerbil

Why is denying that gay men and lesbians are same sex attracted rather than same gender attracted a key thing? Changing the widely accepted words around homosexuality to mean something completely different? And then say yep. This stuff is for us. If you don't agree you're a bigot..?

THAT is straight up homophobia.

When it would be much more straightforward and inclusive to set up alternative things for same gender attracted people and no one would have any kind of issue with that?

A gay man attracted to this person doesn't automatically stop being gay. Attraction is not based on gametes or chromosomes.

To use s pic of a person to 'prove' that homosexuality is not a thing...

Is a rubbish argument and.. homophobic.

A gay man attracted to this person doesn't automatically stop being gay. Attraction is not based on gametes or chromosomes.

Ummmm... no, it's based on sex. Opposite sex attracted is heterosexual. Same sex attracted is homosexual/ lesbian. Attracted to either sex is bisexual. Sexuality has zero relationship to any gender stereotypes, it is about which sex people find attractive. Why are you being so homophobic?

tbf a gay mans attraction to the person in the pic, if is a female, is going to end where the picture ends.

I'm wholly against gender stereotypes. Most trans people are, as people attempt to force them onto us pre-transition, then attempt to force them onto us while transitioning, then continue to pressure us to conform to them after transitioning.

According to that picture not everyone agrees with you.

A gay man attracted to this person doesn't automatically stop being gay.

Because that person superficially passes in a photo. If the man wants to sleep with both sexes, knowingly, they are bisexual.

PS it's a criminal offence to conceal one's sex to a sex partner when they have sex with you thinking you were the opposite sex.

Why is denying that gay men and lesbians are same sex attracted rather than same gender attracted a key thing? Changing the widely accepted words around homosexuality to mean something completely different? And then say yep. This stuff is for us. If you don't agree you're a bigot..?

Because it's "invalidating" if people with a mono sexual orientation reject you because you are the wrong sex, even though you identify as that sex. That is violent and trumps homophobia apparently.

Look at the surprise of the researchers in that paper I quoted that even when people were prepared to date trans people, they did it by sex more than gender, the bizarre transphobes.

tbf a gay mans attraction to the person in the pic, if is a female, is going to end where the picture ends.

Indeed. And everyone knows this.

Just place marking. Thanks to @Ereshkigalangcleg for the link

Ah, we've had an appearance of the lesser spotted 'No one is forcing or coercing you to accept opposite sex partners. We're just going to call you nasty names if you don't' paradox.

People, it's fine to be heterosexual or bisexual. That genuinely isn't a slur. Heck,if you are one of the people who genuinely likes anything down below, then by all means go with Pansexual, I think it's a good descriptor that doesn't take anything from gay men or lesbians, so crack on.

But if you're a female who likes to present in a very masculine way and you fancy men, you're heterosexual, and if you're a male who is fine with both cock and vagina, you're bi. It's not a value judgement, it's just a description of reality.

And I'm a lesbian who was married to a man. Because of conversion therapy. It's not really a progressive idea, but then, you seem not to understand what 'coercion' means, so I imagine you do have trouble with 'progressive' and 'conversion therapy' too.

It's virtue signalling, a phrase I hate but it's what it is. Its commonplace on social media. It makes them look good in public to fight for a cause thats trending but behind close doors don't really care about what they're 'fighting' for! I'm not saying they're all guilty but a lot of them are.

Grown

You may like this.

Beautifully put, as usual @FloralBunting