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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Question re relationships with trans people

542 replies

2021ismyyear · 12/07/2021 19:04

Twitter is full of people that are prepared to defend trans rights at any cost. I’ve seen some hideous things written about people that believe otherwise. The insults against jk Rowling were hard to read. We saw it the other day when maya won her appeal case. People over ran social media with insults against “TERFS” etc.

I assume these people would have zero issue dating a trans person in that case? If trans women are women and sex doesn’t matter and it’s widely accepted that you can switch gender, then will those people start dating trans people? Will we see more women dating trans men for example? Will tinder do away with any search filters?

If not… why?

OP posts:
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8
entropynow · 15/07/2021 00:14

@AfternoonToffee

Because the average person on Twitter isn't actually that bothered about people who are trans, it is an anti-woman cloak to hid behind.
OR the average MNetter is more interested in ignorantly bashing trans people than being pro-women. ALL women.

Have a trans child-in-law, for reference

Barheim · 15/07/2021 00:14

Your sexuality? you are a woman, who is attracted to men.

False. I'm a man who is attracted to men. For which I was assaulted, which you push under the rug and minimize because you prove time and time again that the person without empathy is you.

dyslek · 15/07/2021 00:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/07/2021 00:17

Do you think you're doing anything except contributing to that?

How is this poster on Mumsnet "contributing" to trans people facing violence and abuse, exactly?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/07/2021 00:21

OR the average MNetter is more interested in ignorantly bashing trans people than being pro-women. ALL women.

We are pro-all women. Not interested in you having a trans "child in law", it doesn't give your views any greater authority over anyone else's, because this is about material reality v ideology, not your personal bias.

dyslek · 15/07/2021 00:22

I do worry about the younger generation somewhat.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/07/2021 00:23

Being hospitalized with a collapsed lung after being physically assaulted for being a (insert homophobic slurs here), removed from my house by relatives but put into my inbox on return from the hospital which lead to me moving for my safety and making sure never to bring up my sexuality have taught me, yes.

I'm sorry you have been attacked.

Barheim · 15/07/2021 00:23

Have a trans child-in-law, for reference

I genuinely hope none of them ever do, for the child's safety.

dyslek · 15/07/2021 00:24

I know quite a few men and women who have been assulted for believing they are famous persons (I worked in mental health setting back in the day)

Themeparklover · 15/07/2021 00:31

I'm Pansexual and would happily date a trans individual, many of my close friends have transitioned and although I agree with certain Olympics backlash on physical strength debates etc. I am in full support and do not discriminate regarding partners, friends colleagues etc.

PolkadotZigZags · 15/07/2021 01:30

@Barheim

What is a gender?

not
/nɒt/
adverb
used with an auxiliary verb or ‘be’ to form the negative.
"he would not say"

discuss
/dɪˈskʌs/
verb
talk about (something) with a person or people.
"I discussed the matter with my wife"

this
/ðɪs/
determiner
1.
used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced.
"don't listen to this guy"

Hope that helps!

This says it all really.
Barheim · 15/07/2021 01:45

The general lack of reading comprehension in asking it when I stated prior that I do not wish to discuss this, especially with someone who's solely engaged with me in bad faith, such as to attempt to mock me for my gender or to chase the homophobia I faced with transphobia?

PolkadotZigZags · 15/07/2021 01:48

Why would you not wish to discuss it though? It is central to the beliefs you are asserting so why is it such a problem for you to define what the term means?

Barheim · 15/07/2021 01:54

@PolkadotZigZags

Why would you not wish to discuss it though? It is central to the beliefs you are asserting so why is it such a problem for you to define what the term means?
Because I've had those conversations seventy million times, they always end in bad faith interpretations, and they always start with 'explain what a man is????' 'what is a man???' 'how are you a man if you don't do xyz male stereotype tell me sweetie'.
NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 01:55

Of course people should date whoever they want.

However.

The redefinition of gay/ lesbian as same gender attracted instead of same sex attracted is deeply homophobic.

The counties around the world that have laws against homosexuality, up to and including the death penalty. And the countries where homosexuality is so unacceptable that beatings, corrective gang rape of lesbians and murder are not unusual.

They are not to do with gender ID.

They are about same sex attraction and sexual activity with people of the same sex.

NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 01:58

That's not personal its a general comment.

Personally I think that eg going to gay clubs if you are the opposite sex to the clientele is arrogant. Ditto joining dating apps etc for homosexuals.

There are loads of other options for meeting partners.

NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 02:02

@Barheim

Your sexuality? you are a woman, who is attracted to men.

False. I'm a man who is attracted to men. For which I was assaulted, which you push under the rug and minimize because you prove time and time again that the person without empathy is you.

You are aware that female people globally are well acquainted with violence and sexual violence I'm sure.

I'm sorry you were attacked.

Was it a male person/ people who attacked you? You don't have to say.

Megasausagehead · 15/07/2021 02:03

Surely it's a type of appropriation.

Taking a label of an oppressed group and applying it to suit yourself. Sort of like the word "woman".

PIV sex is heterosexual as a sexual orientation if conducted between a male by sex and a female by sex.

Of course a person can have sex with either, or indeed neither sex too.

Sexual orientation is all about SEX, not a societal construct in someone's head as to what they think they might be.

PolkadotZigZags · 15/07/2021 02:15

@Barheim I don't think most people here are remotely interested in stereotypes. That's the issue. We don't want them pushed on ourselves or our daughters or sons as the "definition" of being a man or woman. My daughter wants to be a doctor or an architect. She loves football. And climbing trees. She wants to be a doctor. Most of her friends are boys and she loves watching sports and playing with cars. She's still a girl (a girl much like I was!) and she'll grow up to be a woman, no matter what her interests or mannerisms or clothes. Because she is female. It's inescapable and will cause her pain and problems to be female at times, as it does for all of us born female, but that is what she is and I have a feeling she'll be fine. Grin What would NOT be fine is someone trying to tell her that because of her interests she is a man.

My son is the most kind, sensitive boy. Lots of his friends are girls. Several want to marry him already Smile He loves sports too and trains etc but also loves drawing and crafts and says my jewellery is beautiful and doesn't care whether his toys are pink or not, likes to wear the fairy dress up outfit from the costume box sometimes and firefighter or astronaut ones other times. None of these things are remotely connected to the fact that he is a boy, and whether he likes it or not he will grow up to be a man, because he is male.

People can dress however they like, "present" however they like, speak how they like, do whatever jobs they like, have whatever interests they like. None of this has anything to do with being a man or a woman. Surely we should be getting rid of damaging stereotypes and telling all children that they can do whatever they like to do. I find this pushing of "gender" roles very damaging for boys and girls and that is why I asked the question. You'd think trans people would be onboard with abolishing the whole idea of gender stereotypes, not trying to reinforce them. I find it baffling.

Barheim · 15/07/2021 02:19

You'd think trans people would be onboard with abolishing the whole idea of gender stereotypes, not trying to reinforce them. I find it baffling.

I'm wholly against gender stereotypes. Most trans people are, as people attempt to force them onto us pre-transition, then attempt to force them onto us while transitioning, then continue to pressure us to conform to them after transitioning.

NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 02:21

@Megasausagehead

Surely it's a type of appropriation.

Taking a label of an oppressed group and applying it to suit yourself. Sort of like the word "woman".

PIV sex is heterosexual as a sexual orientation if conducted between a male by sex and a female by sex.

Of course a person can have sex with either, or indeed neither sex too.

Sexual orientation is all about SEX, not a societal construct in someone's head as to what they think they might be.

Wrote a long post which I lost.

To redefine gay and lesbian as same gender attracted. And not same sex attracted.

Is disrespectful to all those who fought to change laws about homosexuality.

Is ignoring the fact that homosexuality is still illegal in plenty of countries. Imprisonment, even death penalty.

NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 02:24

Ignoring that those who are opposite sex but with same sex gender identities are not targeted by those laws (although GNC people will be at risk of course).

Feeling entitled to admission to things set up by and for same sex attracted people to feel safe and free. Because it's about how you feel inside not about sexed bodies.

NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 02:29

Gay men and lesbians are homosexual. They are sexually attracted to those the same sex.

It has nothing to do with gender.

And the suggestion that not including opposite sex people as potential partners if you are homosexual is... They are doing being gay/ lesbian wrong?

There are loads of ways to meet potential partners.

There is no need to enter any gay/ lesbian things. Dating sites, bars, clubs, websites.

The level of entitlement is staggering.

Barheim · 15/07/2021 02:30

Are you done yet?

NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 02:31

'Because I've had those conversations seventy million times, they always end in bad faith interpretations, and they always start with 'explain what a man is????' 'what is a man???' 'how are you a man if you don't do xyz male stereotype tell me sweetie'.'

Really?

Gay men and lesbians are kind of well known for not confirming to sex stereotypes!

I'm not sure of your point.