Question re relationships with trans people

[2021ismyyear]

Twitter is full of people that are prepared to defend trans rights at any cost. I’ve seen some hideous things written about people that believe otherwise. The insults against jk Rowling were hard to read. We saw it the other day when maya won her appeal case. People over ran social media with insults against “TERFS” etc.

I assume these people would have zero issue dating a trans person in that case? If trans women are women and sex doesn’t matter and it’s widely accepted that you can switch gender, then will those people start dating trans people? Will we see more women dating trans men for example? Will tinder do away with any search filters?

If not… why?

And where have I said I decide who does or doesn't qualify as a gay person?
You claimed that gay people fought for the right to be allowed same gender relationships. I merely pointed out that that isn't true of any of the gay people I know. They all fought for the right to have same sex relationships. Maybe they are doing gay wrong. 🤔

Curious you have not responded to my post.

Do you honestly think that in Iran where homosexuality is illegal and can mean the death penalty,

That male people who have sex with female people can be at risk of execution if they both feel like men inside??!!

Good night all.

@NiceGerbil

Curious out of interest. How do you think your posts will land with lurkers?

Do you genuinely believe that Alan Turing would have been arrested and charged for having a sexual relationship with a female person who felt like a man inside?

Really??!!

Yes, if his trans partner were to live as, dress as, and introduce himself to others as a man, he and his partner would still very be likely arrested; regardless of whether the trans man was a "biological female", his trans identity would still be a violation.

Society's repression of trans people isn't based on mind reading, it's based on continuous attempts to restrict and repress trans people's self-identification and self-expression, which what you people are continuously attempting.

'Ah yes, good old "but what if the trans person is closeted" argument.

Well in that case the world doesn't perceive them as trans and thus while there's no immediate danger of anti-trans abuse, being forced to continuously repress one's identity still makes a person's life miserable and is itself part of societal anti-trans abuse.

Same thing as repressed gay people.'

No dice.

Leave the goalposts where they were.

You said

'Gay people fought for the right to love people of the same gender, not for strictly defined "sex-based attraction" (which is a term that originated in conversion therapy language)'

Around the world right now people are being arrested imprisoned beaten imprisoned. The death penalty is the max penalty in some countries.

Anyway, it was claimed there is no evidence about trans dating pools. This is wrong (my bold):

The current study sought to describe the demographic characteristics of individuals who are willing to consider a transgender individual as a potential dating partner. Participants (N = 958) from a larger study on relationship decision-making processes were asked to select all potential genders that they would consider dating if ever seeking a future romantic partner. The options provided included cisgender men, cisgender women, trans men, trans women, and genderqueer individuals. Across a sample of heterosexual, lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer, and trans individuals, 87.5% indicated that they would not consider dating a trans person, with cisgender heterosexual men and women being most likely to exclude trans persons from their potential dating pool. Individuals identifying as bisexual, queer, trans, or non-binary were most likely to indicate a willingness to date a trans person. However, even among those willing to date trans persons, a pattern of masculine privileging and transfeminine exclusion appeared, such that participants were disproportionately willing to date trans men, but not trans women, even if doing so was counter to their self-identified sexual and gender identity (e.g., a lesbian dating a trans man but not a trans woman).

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0265407518779139

Again no dice.

Be straightforward.

You say that gay men never fought for same sex relationships to be legalised.

By implication that extends to the current laws in force around the world.

A male person being in a relationship with a female person does not and has not ever been illegal due to laws about homosexuality.

@NiceGerbil

'Ah yes, good old "but what if the trans person is closeted" argument.

Well in that case the world doesn't perceive them as trans and thus while there's no immediate danger of anti-trans abuse, being forced to continuously repress one's identity still makes a person's life miserable and is itself part of societal anti-trans abuse.

Same thing as repressed gay people.'

No dice.

Leave the goalposts where they were.

You said

'Gay people fought for the right to love people of the same gender, not for strictly defined "sex-based attraction" (which is a term that originated in conversion therapy language)'

Around the world right now people are being arrested imprisoned beaten imprisoned. The death penalty is the max penalty in some countries.

@NiceGerbil Around the world right now people are being arrested imprisoned beaten imprisoned. The death penalty is the max penalty in some countries. And in most of the same places, the same happens to trans people should they dare to introduce and present themselves as the "opposite" gender.

Gay people fought for the right to freely love whoever they want to love.

No. They specifically fought for the right to be same sex attracted. It has nothing to do with gender identity ideology.

@NiceGerbil

Curious you have not responded to my post.

Do you honestly think that in Iran where homosexuality is illegal and can mean the death penalty,

That male people who have sex with female people can be at risk of execution if they both feel like men inside??!!

I don't think Iran is a good example to use here. A gay male can escape punishment if he transitions to become a transwoman.

Like Curious, the Iranians think that such a person would no longer be gay if they then had a relationship with a man, since they wouldn't be the 'same gender'.

I wonder if Curious views the Iranians as homophobic or enlightened?

But they didn't need to fight for the right to love people of the opposite sex. That was already allowed. Weirdly enough gay people wanted to be allowed to love people of the opposite sex. That's what they were fighting for.
And homosexual literally means "same sex".
Christ. Its like arguing with a toddler who just makes shit up all the time.

It is, Ciao.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Gay people fought for the right to freely love whoever they want to love.

No. They specifically fought for the right to be same sex attracted. It has nothing to do with gender identity ideology.

No, it wasn't about "the right to be same-sex attracted", it was about the right to freely love people of the same gender.

I can guarantee you there's no mention whatsoever of "the right to be same-sex attracted" prior to 2015, right around the time your anti-trans panic and weaponization of gay people began.

No, it wasn't about "the right to be same-sex attracted", it was about the right to freely love people of the same gender.

No. I'm not dignifying this nonsense with anything more.

'
I can guarantee you there's no mention whatsoever of "the right to be same-sex attracted" prior to 2015, right around the time your anti-trans panic and weaponization of gay people began.'

2015??

Do you genuinely believe what you're typing?!

I don't know why I'm bothering but anyway

'Sexual Offences Act 1967
After several attempts to introduce homosexual reform, Lord Arran introduced the Bill in the House of Lords in May 1966 after the general election. As soon as the Bill passed, Leo Abse MP introduced it into the House of Commons under a ten minute rule procedure, with the support of the Home Secretary, Roy Jenkins. A standing committee was set up to consider amendments and after an intense night of debates, at the third reading, the Bill was passed 101 votes to 16. After passing all stages in both houses, the bill received Royal Assent on the 21st July 1967.

The Act permitted homosexual acts between two consenting adults over the age of twenty-one. Whilst the Act was a considerable milestone in achieving homosexual law reform, equality for the LGBT community was far from being achieved. Restrictions were placed on what was considered private and the Act only applied to England and Wales. It would take a number of years for Parliament to fully legalise homosexuality.'

From the trans dating paper I quoted below:

such that participants were disproportionately willing to date trans men, but not trans women, even if doing so was counter to their self-identified sexual and gender identity (e.g., a lesbian dating a trans man but not a trans woman).

Why would that be, CuriousPanda?

@OldCrone
Like Curious, the Iranians think that such a person would no longer be gay if they then had a relationship with a man, since they wouldn't be the 'same gender'.

I wonder if Curious views the Iranians as homophobic or enlightened?

Honestly, I'm so sick of dishonest bullshit like this. Do you think all trans people are straight/"homosexual"?

Do you think Iran is accepting of bi trans people? Gay trans men? Trans lesbians? What the hell do you think happens to trans people who aren't attracted to the opposite gender?

No, I don't think Iran is "enlightened" why the hell would I think that? What me and virtually all of trans people are trying to argue all along is that people should be free to live their lives however they want with no fear of discrimination or punishment.

Wiki- Iran

'Same-sex sexual activities are punishable by imprisonment,[2] corporal punishment, or execution.[3] Gay men have faced stricter enforcement actions under the law than lesbians.

The government of Iran is considered to be one of the most discriminatory towards homosexuals in the world.[4][5][6] It is estimated that hundreds or thousands[7][8][9] of people were executed in the immediate aftermath of revolution of whom at least 20 for homosexuality. Ruhollah Khomeini called them to be exterminated in 1979.[10]'

The attempted gaslighting on this thread is strong, but the game is weak. And I'm off to bed. Night all.

@NiceGerbil

Wiki- Iran

'Same-sex sexual activities are punishable by imprisonment,[2] corporal punishment, or execution.[3] Gay men have faced stricter enforcement actions under the law than lesbians.

The government of Iran is considered to be one of the most discriminatory towards homosexuals in the world.[4][5][6] It is estimated that hundreds or thousands[7][8][9] of people were executed in the immediate aftermath of revolution of whom at least 20 for homosexuality. Ruhollah Khomeini called them to be exterminated in 1979.[10]'

And do you think I condone any of that?

Are you American, @CuriousPanda ?

'The partially clothed body of Eudy Simelane, former star of South Africa's acclaimed Banyana Banyana national female football squad, was found in a creek in a park in Kwa Thema, on the outskirts of Johannesburg. Simelane had been gang-raped and brutally beaten before being stabbed 25 times in the face, chest and legs. As well as being one of South Africa's best-known female footballers, Simelane was a voracious equality rights campaigner and one of the first women to live openly as a lesbian in Kwa Thema.

Her brutal murder took place last April, and since then a tide of violence against lesbians in South Africa has continued to rise. Human rights campaigners say it is characterised by what they call "corrective rape" committed by men behind the guise of trying to "cure" lesbians of their sexual orientation.'