Helen Webberley

[Signalbox]

Looks like Helem Webberley's substantive case has finally been listed for 26th July 2021

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-helen-webberley-jul-21

I'm going to try and follow on Twitter.

Helen Webberley Tribunal Tweets
The tribunal is scheduled to hear witnesses from Wednesday. IS notes that the defence will call Dr (Vickie) Pasterski at some point

Dr Pasterski is a consultant at the private London Transgender Clinic.

thelondontransgenderclinic.uk/our-transgender-surgery-practice-london/diagnosis-therapy/dr-vickie-pasterski/

Background:
(extract)
"Recognised Gender Specialist
Gender Recognition Panel
Ministry of Justice, UK"
www.harleystgenderclinic.com/about

relevant threads:

May 2019 Dr Pasterski's provided influential evidence as 'expert witness' in a significant Care case against Lancashire County Council concerning three (unrelated) young childen identified as 'trans' within foster carers' family:
www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWFC/HCJ/2019/30.html

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582478-Judge-over-rules-social-services-concerns

January 2019
OP 2010Equality wrote,
"Jay vs Secretary of State for Justice -- getting a GRC on appeal after panel says 'no' three times

I've just been reading the court judgment behind this story . It is disturbing www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/trangender-rights-gender-recognitions-exposives-womens-prisons-father-of-seven-david-gauke-a8586241.html

It is about ‘Ms Jay’ a seven times dad convicted of obtaining explosives with intent to endanger life. The GRA panel turned Jay down three times, but a single judge sitting on his own overruled it and gave Jay the certificate. (so now they will be in a women's prison...)

The judgement gives the history of Jay: sent to prison for 8 years. Has long psychiatric medical history with no mention of gender identity issues in records. Unstable personality traits. Behavioural impulsivity. Maladaptive coping strategies. Cuts into own testicle “with the intention of removing it”.

First GRC application while in prison: report from Dr James Barrett from London Gender Identity Clinic. Jay claims to have transitioned before prison & been in contact w clinics in London, Birmingham, Nottingham. Barrett sees no evidence “doubts veracity of whole history”. Barrett wonders whether Jay’s “ somewhat dependent personality had caused her to unwisely latch onto a change of gender role as a seemingly universal solution to both why her life had gone wrong and how it might be rectified.”

Out on parole. Second application supported by a new GP who has known Jay a couple of months & has not got full medical records. GPays Jay being seen by Nottingham gender clinic. Jay writes on the letter: left Nottingham Gender Clinic “due to their total incompetence”.

Jay promises letter from “gender specialist” Helen Webberly (!!!) but it never arrives. Goes back to prison after breaking parole. Attempts further self-surgery, removing part of testicles and penis.Jay submits report prepared for a separate court case by forensic psychiatrist at secure hospital. Report is 34 pages w 26 pages redacted by Jay as “not relevant’. The report says Jay has “sought help from Nottingham clinic” & from private specialists [sic] w expertise in gender dysphoria
Panel refuses again. Neither GP nor the forensic psychiatrist have credibly diagnosed gender dysphoria.

Out of prison again. Third GRC Application supported by Dr Vickie Pasterski. Vickie Pasterski (twitter.com/DrPasterski

Dr Pasterski’s report is glowing. No mention of past six years in prison or of previous hacking at own genitals. "is a 39-year-old natal male who has lived in the female gender role since 2013. In this time, she has lived continuously and in all contexts as female, has undertaken laser hair removal, breast augmentation, feminising hormone therapy and feminising body sculpting procedures. Furthermore, to my
knowledge, [Ms Jay] has never been diagnosed with disqualifying psychiatric illness."

Eh? When did all this laser hair removal, breast augmentation & body sculpting happen - since Jay has only been out of prison a few months? Who paid for it? Why are there no medical records mentioning it? The panel noticed this too, and start asking questions. Did Dr Pasterski know her patient had been in prison for most of past 6 years? Are there any medical records of treatment? Has Jay been employed since prison? Panel thinks Jay “may have something to hide”.

Jay responds with a letter vociferously complaining about the panel’s conduct, describing it as “pathetic” and “a total disgrace” (Jay often responds to panel by returning their letters with intemperate written comments)

November 2017 Jay breaks parole conditions again and goes back to prison. Files appeal against the panel’s decision. Supported by a report from another doctor who has only seen Jay once. At the appeal the Judge pronounces, without the panel, that he is convinced by the evidence that Jay has gender dysphoria. Judge says GRA is designed to be "permissive rather than restrictive" and the evidential requirements are ancillary to the statutory criteria."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3481765-Jay-vs-Secretary-of-State-for-Justice-getting-a-GRC-on-appeal-after-panel-says-no-three-times

From thread above re Lancashire CC case,

LangCleg wrote, Sat 11-May-19
The legal team for the foster mother/mother according to the judgement rely largely on the report of Dr Pasterski.

This is the position of Dr Pasterski on childhood GD:

In her report she identifies that there have been recent changes to the diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria and that research on mental health and transgender children have shed light onto critical historical misunderstandings related to clinical presentation in gender dysphoria. Firstly, that children who present with gender dysphoria are likely to desist in their cross-gender identification and secondly that gender dysphoria is inherently associated with high rates of comorbid psychopathology. She notes both have been shown to be false. She identifies that these misunderstandings arise from two particular factors. Firstly earlier studies which showed that up to 80% of children desist in gender dysphoria included children who presented with gender incongruent behaviour but did not necessarily state the wish to be or that they were the other gender. Thus children displaying gender variance may have been wrongly diagnosed with gender dysphoria. As a result of this treatment protocols previously incorporated a watch and wait approach which had prevented truly dysphoric children from transitioning which had likely resulted in increased rates of depression and anxiety. As Dr Pasterski puts it 'Put simply, many who have shown to desist were likely not dysphoric and psychopathology in those who persisted was likely due to forbidden expression of their true gender identity.'

This is not the current NHS position. (Quite aside from the usual No True Scotsman fallacy as used by gender evangelists day in, day out). This extreme position has been recently challenged both by a review at the Tavi and by TV documentaries such as Panorama."

Sunday Times Andrew Gilligan and Melanie Newman
Sunday May 12 2019

'The tangled case of the brothers who became girls aged seven and three
A couple’s own son transitioned — and within months they were given a baby to foster, who became a girl too'
(extract)
A boy transitioned to being a girl from the age of three after being sent to live with foster parents, whose own son had just legally transitioned at the age of seven.

The younger child was dressed in girls’ clothes, even though teachers had “expressly asked” the foster parents not to do so.

SPONSORED

A third foster child previously cared for by the couple also had “gender identity issues”.

The actions of the foster parents, known only as CP and TP, led to an investigation by Lancashire county council’s social services amid fears they had “manipulated” their children’s gender, had “actively encouraged” the change and risked causing them “significant emotional harm”.

However, in a closed hearing at Preston family court last month the concerns were dismissed (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-tangled-case-of-the-brothers-who-became-girls-aged-seven-and-three-dq7spwkdq

Are the skeleton arguments published anywhere?

Skeleton arguments sound bloody flimsy

@WarriorN

Skeleton arguments sound bloody flimsy

Yep. Sounds like she's trying to use those testimonials she was asking for.

Thanks for all those links, R0wan. The one about Jay is absolutely shocking. I don't recall seeing that before. If I understand that correctly, Jay now has a GRC and if out of prison is therefore likely to be using women's toilets, changing rooms etc. Lovely. If in prison, may be in a women's prison. Terrifying.

The one about Jay is absolutely shocking. I don't recall seeing that before. If I understand that correctly, Jay now has a GRC and if out of prison is therefore likely to be using women's toilets, changing rooms etc. Lovely. If in prison, may be in a women's prison. Terrifying.

Further background here by STILLTish includes evidence that 'Ms Jay' changed name frequently prior to obtaining a GRC:

gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com/2019/10/10/gender-recognition-certificates/

What was the name of the 'expert' witness doctor in the 1990s I think who's testimony led to a woman being imprisoned for murdering her children? Later overturned. I remember his testimony included a statement something like "the chance of this occurring in one child was 1 in a hundred thousand, so the chance of it in two children would be 1 in 10 billion." Which completely ignored the fact that if they were related events then the chance of it occurring in the second child could be as high as a certainty - 1 in 1. I remember thinking how did no one in court pick this up?

Professor Sir Roy Meadow?
www.theguardian.com/society/2003/dec/19/health.childprotection

A blogpost on the misunderstanding of probability in that shocking case

Yes, that is the one. Interesting blog too

Poor Sally Clark

I never understood that case as I had been taught that there was INCREASED risk of SIDS in a family where this had happened previously and iirc there was a national campaign to raise awareness and educate HCPs (eg midwives like me, as I was then) and to offer additional support and monitoring to families with a previous SID.

I can't remember the factors taken into account to conclude increased risk likely but off the top of my head there would surely be maternal health factors/raised BP/smoking/prematurity all of which would be likely to be a factor in subsequent pregnancies, but obviously there would be other issues as well in individual families.

Yep. Sounds like she's trying to use those testimonials she was asking for.

Anonymous testimonials, that can't be tested because the writers aren't witnesses and posts from the gender GP website.

Webberleys defence appears to be 'I ignored regulatory framework of the United Kingdom, leading to a criminal conviction because people/children asked me to'

The Tavistock also isn't appearing as a witness.

Side issue webberley Internet connection is shocking.

Yet another interview.
She's really going for it in the court of public opinion isn't she?

inews.co.uk/news/health/gender-clinic-patients-tribunal-gendergp-doctor-helen-webberley-nhs-1121007

An hcp doesn't want to appear in person due to "fear." (Unrelated to the tribunal apparently/ what ever that means.)

Also this:

Thread here, a few pointing out the dangers of this.

Clearly don't care.

Anyone used Oxford Online Pharmacy for Clomid? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/2544934-Anyone-used-Oxford-Online-Pharmacy-for-Clomid

Helen Webberley Tribunal Tweets
IS refers to evidence which appears to be correspondence from Terry Read at GIRES to Baroness Barker.

mobile.twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1419671113236422659

Relevant threads:

p4 Anlaf wrote, Sun 24-Feb-19

"Now who knew that GIRES was set up as the charitable arm of Press for Change? I did not.

The Gender Identity Research and Education Society

Press for Change activists Bernard Reed and Yvonne Wingfield have been hard at work setting up a charity, which is now going for registration with the Charity Commission.

The idea is to allow the charity to take on - and expand - the current work of Press for Change in the areas of publication of information, education and training, research and support for students. PFC itself cannot be a charity, being of its nature political, but it makes sense to siphon off some of our activities into a charity, especially as the range of our activities continues to expand.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3188145-anyone-know-the-gender-identity-research-education-society-gires

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3389255-Could-any-one-tell-me-about-Gires

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3322310-gires-school-resources

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3160730-GIRES-Dsyphoria-Training-for-GPs

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3497770-RC-for-GPs-scraps-GIRES-developed-course

www.gires.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/GIRES-AGM-Minutes-September-2016.pdf

2016 GIRES AGM
"The Chair Celia Macleod welcomed members and guests
including Baroness Elizabeth Barker and Dr Helen Webberley to the 18th AGM of the Society'

1. Any Other Business

None. The Meeting closed at 3.30pm. Afterwards Baroness Barker spoke on Parliamentary and political aspects of current transgender issues and Dr. Helen Webberley spoke on transgender health care as a GP. Other matters discussed included the Report of the House of Commons Women & Equalities Committee Inquiry, Brexit, trans*formation and trans individuals in prison. There was also a workshop for families of gender nonconforming people. Bernard and Terry were thanked for their hospitality and we all clapped when Baroness Barker praised Terry for her great vision and persistence."

From 'Let's go back' thread linked above,

Anlaf wrote,
"Here is GIRES' website from 2005 - already recommending that adolescent treatment include puberty blockers and cross sex hormones. also has children's handout called "your dad's adventure" which is grimly controlling and ends "and she needs you to love her too"

[web.archive.org/web/20051029231637/www.gires.org.uk/Web_Page_Assets/frontframeset.htm]]

apologies
<a class="break-all" href="//web.archive.org/web/20051029231637/www.gires.org.uk/Web_Page_Assets/frontframeset.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20051029231637/www.gires.org.uk/Web_Page_Assets/frontframeset.htm

Thanks for the excellent forensics R0.

[quote WarriorN]Thread here, a few pointing out the dangers of this.

Clearly don't care.

Anyone used Oxford Online Pharmacy for Clomid? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/2544934-Anyone-used-Oxford-Online-Pharmacy-for-Clomid[/quote]
Doesn't even address the dangers. Just picks up the thread two weeks later touting for business.