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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Helen Webberley

978 replies

Signalbox · 05/07/2021 11:59

Looks like Helem Webberley's substantive case has finally been listed for 26th July 2021

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-helen-webberley-jul-21

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 16:50

ibid. PencilsInSpace wrote,

"Who knew PfC and GIRES parted ways in 2000, in large part because of the way GIRES treated intersex people and support groups?

Relationship of PFC and Gires
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20061116120000/www.pfc.org.uk/pfclists/news-arc/2000q2/msg00084.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20061116120000/www.pfc.org.uk/pfclists/news-arc/2000q2/msg00084.htm

Dear Colleagues

With great regret the Press for Change Vice Presidents publish the statement below. We are aware that some people will wish we had taken this decision sooner whilst others will wish we had not taken it at all. It is not a hasty decision, and the publication of this statement has been delayed further because of our efforts to obtain all the facts and to listen to as many points of view as possible. We are grateful for the patience of those who would have liked an earlier decision. In the event it has still not been physically possible to speak to all those affected, but in the circumstances we feel that we have no choice now but to publish first and talk about it afterwards. We would be grateful if everyone would read the statement in full, and we will gladly answer any questions you have. We would like to stress that this decision is intended as a constructive action in a difficult situation and that we do not wish to attach blame to any individual involved.

STATEMENT BY THE PRESS FOR CHANGE VICE PRESIDENTS: 18th May 2000
THE RELATIONSHIP OF PRESS FOR CHANGE AND THE GENDER IDENTITY RESEARCH AND EDUCATION SOCIETY

At the 1996 Press for Change Planning Meeting it was decided to look into setting up a subsidiary charity which would have the mandate of providing education and information about trans issues. As a charity it would be enabled to obtain tax refunds on subscriptions and donations and raise money from sources not accessible to Press for Change (which as an overtly political organisation cannot apply for charitable status in its own right) and it was hoped it could eventually take on - and expand - the.work of Press for Change in the areas of publication of information, education and training, research and support for students.

It was later agreed to establish the Gender Identity Research and Education Society (Gires). Gires was registered as an independent charity in February 1998 with no formal relationship to Press for Change. A separate entity was required under charity law and was thus the easiest arrangement. However almost all the Gires trustees were (and are) also members of Press for Change, and the Charity Commisssion agreed that it would be acceptable for Gires to use the strapline "Working alongside Press for Change ". Later a "contractual service agreement" was agreed between Press for Change and Gires which cemented a close relationship.

In January 1999, GIRES' charitable objects were agreed by its founding members to be:
To advance education into gender identity and intersex Issues, and in particular:
a. To initiate, promote and support research particularly to address the needs of those in whom there is a strong and ongoing desire to live and be accepted as a member of the sex opposite from that assigned at birth;
b. To publish the outcomes of such research and other relevant information in order to inform interested parties and the general public;
c. To enable the public to achieve a wider understanding of these issues and thereby equal treatment within society of those whom they affect.

For many reasons, things have not turned out as originally envisioned.

Gires has never been in any practical sense a "subsidiary" of Press for Change, nor has it restricted its activities to raising money for the educational work of Press for Change. Rather, it has developed into an organisation in its own right with a clear direction of its own.

Because of a policy of trying to draw funds from new sources, rather than from existing supporters of Press for Change (who can and do donate directly to Press for Change), Gires has raised most of its funds from outside the trans community and more than half of its membership consists of non trans people. It has to date been unsuccessful in securing much funding which could be used directly to subsidise the educational work of Press for Change, and responsibility for this must be shared by Gires and by Press for Change, which because of pressure of work has been unable to invest the necessary time into providing Gires' trustees with the direction and information they required. Instead however Gires has set up medical and social "research panels" consisting overwhelmingly professionals who are not trans people. It has also become increasingly involved with policy making rather than straightforward education and research. The nature of the research panels has damaged Gires' credibility as a supporter of the trans community and its involvement with policy has created difficulties as it has strayed into areas in which Press for Change and other groups representing trans people are already working.

Gires' position as an organisation of mostly non trans people could be and at times has been a strength, in that having non trans people support or speak in favour of equality and respect for trans people adds weight to our case. Unfortunately it can also be a weakness if it appears that Gires is exceeding its mandate or is failing adequately to represent or consult with the client group it exists to serve.

In particular we have been alarmed by the recent involvement of Gires in intersex issues, which has caused widespread offence amongst intersex people and the existing groups which represent them. Press for Change regrets this very much. We fully support their right to represent themselves, or not, as they see fit, and have advised Gires to proceed with great caution with any further work in this field.

We have also advised Gires to ensure that any further work they do in representing the interests of trans people to others, especially to public authorities and decision making bodies, is only carried out in full collaboration with other existing groups such as GenTrust, the FTM Network, Mermaids, Change, G & SA and Press for Change, and that we consider it at all times inappropriate for Gires to appear to be negotiating on behalf of the wider trans community, which is in itself already diverse.

The Press for Change Vice Presidents have decided that it is wise at this point to end the current semi-formal link between the two organisations. We believe that this link is no longer of any great benefit to either organisation and has the potential to lead to a serious conflict of interest. We feel Gires needs to be free to pursue its own agenda without formal reference to Press for Change and that our attempts to direct and advise Gires are increasingly leading to friction which is damaging personal relationships and taking time and energy away from the campaign itself. Press for Change, for its part, will no longer be in any way accountable for the actions of Gires. However if current differences of approach can be resolved, we very much hope it will be possible to collaborate with Gires in future, most especially in the areas of research and education where Gires is well placed to undertake some good work.

We hope very much that the separation of the two organisations will free both of them to concentrate on their primary objectives - the achievement of equality and respect for all trans people through education, legislation and social change.

Christine Burns
Claire McNab
Mark Rees
Sarah Rutherford
Alex Whinnom
Stephen Whittle"

R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 16:59

ibid. PencilsInSpace wrote,
"PfC's objections to the way GIRES was attempting to work with intersex groups seem quite different from the objections of the intersex groups themselves.

An open letter by Claire McNab of PfC makes clear that the main objection was that GIRES were consulting with medical professionals rather than intersex people themselves. Claire writes as an individual however this seems to be PfC's position as a whole. At least I haven't found anything contradicting Claire's position from anyone else in PfC.

The Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome Support Group (AISSG) UK on the other hand, objected to the appropriation of intersex to further the trans agenda. Here's their statement in full. This was also posted to the PfC news lists.
<a class="break-all" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20170117130415/www.aissg.org/15_ANNOUNCE.HTM#14%20May%202000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20170117130415/www.aissg.org/15_ANNOUNCE.HTM#14%20May%202000 (continues)

Summary

After extensive email correspondence with Bernard Reed of GIRES during mid March to early April 2000, we decided not to work with GIRES at the present time. Overall, we wish to disassociate ourselves from GIRES and to state that they do not represent us.

We have already established mutually beneficial relationships with several groups of clinicians and are working with them on AIS-related research projects and the provision of multi-disciplinary patient care. We collaborate on joint projects with other related support organisations (e.g. the UK Turner Syndrome Society, the Anorchidism Support Group) via a consortium set up by the Genetic Interest Group. Within this consortium (set up in 1999) we have recently published a leaflet for clinicians to give to parents on receipt of a 'genetic diagnosis' and have obtained a grant from the Baring Foundation to enable one of the clinical psychologists with whom we work to carry out counselling skills training for the three groups' helpline volunteers. We also work very closely on an informal basis with the UK's Adrenal Hyperplasia Network (AHN) and Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) Group.

We do not foresee that an association with GIRES would follow the same spirit as those above, so do not wish to join forces with Reed. We believe that Reed's desire to change the medical management of intersex, although reasonable in itself, is based firmly on the discourse of gender dysphoria (transsexualism/transgender, often referred to as 'trans') and moreover masks an underlying attempt to exploit physical/biological intersex so as to provide an authenticity to that scenario, an authentication that it doesn't need." (continues)

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 26/07/2021 17:08

Hang on, she was flogging clomid privately before developing her "interest" in gender?

Fertility and gender, particularly paediatric gender, are quite different disciplines, are they not?

Maybe she is focusing on the "most desperate/willing to pay" populations. Wonder if you need to be a registered doctor to supply tape worms to fat people?

R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 17:28

I believe there was a third online business also, with a different target customer. I'm unsure of the details.

R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 18:03

@R0wantrees

I believe there was a third online business also, with a different target customer. I'm unsure of the details.
MoleSmokes on 'Dr-Helen-and-Dr-Mike-Webberley-matters-of-public-record' wrote,

"2014 - Helen Webberley is the GP involved with the online pharmacy the "Great British Drugstore" dispensing a massive range of medicines from the UK to the USA - nothing specific to "transgender" to see here, just general exploiting of loopholes in the law and cashing in on the lower price of medicines in the UK negotiated by the NHS:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3588654-dr-mike-webberley-suspended?msgid=87218462

R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 18:05

from link above,

OldCrone Tue 21-May-19 11:10:54

"I just did a search to try to find out when the Webberleys started this money-making operation, and I found this from October 7, 2014.

bangordailynews.com/2014/10/07/health/british-pharmacy-chain-launches-online-drugstore-for-maine-consumers/

This particular operation seems to have been a way to make money from NHS prescriptions, selling the drugs on to customers in the USA who would normally pay a lot more for them.

The Maine Pharmacy Association, joined by the Retail Association of Maine, highlighted U.K. regulations that prohibit U.K. pharmacists from supplying medicines for prescriptions based in the U.S.

“Great British Drug Store is violating both U.S. and U.K. laws,” the groups said in a statement Wednesday.

O’Brien said both U.S. and U.K. legal counsel consulted with U.K. regulators and have signed off on the operation. Customers must fill out a health questionnaire on the site, which will be reviewed by a U.K. physician with 20 years of experience, Dr. Helen Webberley. If Webberley finds no problems, she will recreate each prescription for the U.K., O’Brien said.

“Patients are legally allowed to import, we’re legally allowed to export, we’re legally allowed to dispense,” O’Brien said.

By selling medications to Mainers at prices patients pay in Britain — which negotiates drug costs under the publicly funded National Health Service — Great British Drugstore can offer steep discounts, O’Brien said."

Bosky · 26/07/2021 18:06

The Webberley's were into anything remotely "medical" they could sell online - look at this lot from "Online GP"

That screenshot is from 8 Jan 2021

Helen Webberley
R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 18:17

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

Hang on, she was flogging clomid privately before developing her "interest" in gender?

Fertility and gender, particularly paediatric gender, are quite different disciplines, are they not?

Maybe she is focusing on the "most desperate/willing to pay" populations. Wonder if you need to be a registered doctor to supply tape worms to fat people?

Fri 25-Nov-16

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/2544934-Anyone-used-Oxford-Online-Pharmacy-for-Clomid?pg=2

Helen Webberley
Bosky · 26/07/2021 18:24

Oh - apologies, that is the Webberley's "My Web Doctor" website. When you clicked through those icons for more info all but two services were provided by Helen Webberley:

31 May 2019
archive.ph/EQyb0

Earlier archive: 19 Nov 2016
archive.ph/hdnuA

The two services provided by Mike Webberley were for "Ludomania" aka Gambling Addiction and Alcoholism:

Gambling Addiction – Ludomania
archive.fo/egz0M

Alcohol Dependency and Abuse
archive.ph/kdO0A

(Danial Webb has all this info)

Bosky · 26/07/2021 18:31

"The Online Surgery UK for all your health needs"

archive.vn/D1Hiu

Need some Medication?
Choose from one of the conditions below

(too many to list)

ASK OUR DOCTORS HERE
(ps. there's only one)

Dr. Helen Webberley

Dr. Webberley is a highly experienced NHS GP and has developed and provided online healthcare for many years. She can provide the full range of medical services, and is able to advise and help with acute and chronic problems.

R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 18:42

The two services provided by Mike Webberley were for "Ludomania" aka Gambling Addiction and Alcoholism:

It appears the 'service' offered was primarily writing prescriptions for Naltrexone, Acamprosate and/or Nalmefene.

Mike Webberley was a gastroenterologist.

BettyFilous · 26/07/2021 19:03

I love FWR contributors’ forensic collation of evidence, with a special mention for ace archivist R0wantrees. 👏

highame · 26/07/2021 19:36

Thanks for digging out your other thread R0wan I knew there was one but couldn't locate it. So much information. You are a star Star

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 26/07/2021 19:41

I'm appalled.

And if I was a medic I'd be double appalled.

And I am very glad I'm not a parent of a kid who's gender issues had lead me across HW or SG. Neither should be anywhere near a position of influence or power or vulnerable people.

R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 19:49

Dr Helen Webberley's Appeal against "DECISION ON NATIONAL DISQUALIFICATION" by NHS WALES/ANEURIN BEVAN UNIVERSITY HEALTH BOARD
On the papers on 10 January 2019
(extract)
12.We refer to our decision dated 22 October 2018. The findings made related to the overarching issue of Dr Webberley’s self-governance and her willingness to be subject to regulatory governance by those responsible for her continued inclusion in the MPL. In our decision we summarised the reasons for our decision regarding suitability:

“109. We consider that Dr Webberley’s sustained actions in frustrating the efforts of the LHB to reassure itself as to her standards renders her unsuitable for inclusion in the MPL. She told the investigators that terms of reference needed to be set but she knew they had already been set. We have found that her reasons for refusing access to her practice on 5 October were disingenuous and manipulative. She wanted to prevent access or investigation. The respondent has satisfied us that she lacks the essential attributes of integrity and candour which are essential to suitability. She also lacks insight. We do not consider that the attributes of suitability are divisible as between private and NHS practice because suitability is a concept that goes to the very core of practitioner’s true character and attitude. Dr Webberley’s attitude is one of entrenched resistance to regulation and is highly coloured by her lack of integrity and candour."

phl.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk/Documents/(FTT)%20Decision%20on%20National%20Disqualification%2023%20January%202019%20-%20[2018]%203251.PHL.pdf

WarriorN · 26/07/2021 20:22

@BettyFilous

I love FWR contributors’ forensic collation of evidence, with a special mention for ace archivist R0wantrees. 👏

Hear hear! and also excellent archiving stuff going on. Thanks all

WarriorN · 26/07/2021 20:23

(I meant mn web archiving stuff!)

R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 20:34

Oxford Online Pharmacy
Our Dedicated GP, Dr Helen, Was A Guest On BBC Radio 5
Thursday, October 22, 2015
(extract)
Speaking about the dangers of ordering counterfeit diet pills online, in the wake of the tragic death of the 21-year old student, Eloise Parry, Dr Helen discussed the dangers of DNP (dinitrophenol), the highly toxic active ingredient believed to be responsible.

Dr Helen explained the importance of using a legitimate and trusted online pharmacy and advised listeners to check the credentials of the company when ordering pharmaceuticals online. (continues)

'If you are buying prescription-only medication without a prescription, then it is illegal and potentially very dangerous. Remote healthcare can be very convenient and very safe when accessed properly, but people need to be doubly careful that the healthcare professionals they have access to are properly qualified and licensed to provide this service.'

'Don't be afraid to pick up the phone and ask to speak to the pharmacist or doctor that is treating you. Ask to see their GMC and GPhC registration and check that they are safe and legal. Online doctor services are a great adjunct to the overburdened NHS, but there are also a lot of rogue traders selling counterfeit or illegal medication.' (continues)
www.oxfordonlinepharmacy.co.uk/blog/our-dedicated-gp-dr-helen-was-a-guest-on-bbc-radio-5

Bosky · 26/07/2021 20:34

"British pharmacy chain launches online drugstore for Maine consumers"
Bangor Daily News, October 2014

A British pharmacy chain has launched an online drugstore in Maine, taking advantage of a controversial first-in-the-nation law that allows Maine residents to buy medicines from some foreign countries.

Touting “British drugs at British prices,” the Great British Drugstore sells brand-name prescription medications by mail order at prices up to 70 percent lower than in the U.S. The company plans to announce its Maine launch on Wednesday afternoon at a news conference in Portland.

“What we’re trying to do is target people who need to access medicines who can’t afford them,” said Mary O’Brien, managing director for Great British Drugstore.

Operated by the British pharmacy company Weldricks, an independently owned chain with 61 locations throughout the United Kingdom, the site targets only Maine consumers.

While some Canadian pharmacies already market to Maine residents under the landmark law, Great British Drugstore is the first U.K.-based company making a big push in Maine.

Passed in June 2013, the law allows Maine residents to buy prescription drugs from Internet pharmacies in Canada, the U.K., Australia and New Zealand.

Supporters of the law contend it will lower Mainers’ health care costs by providing access to less expensive medications. Mainers face the fifth-highest health care expenditures in the country, spending $8,521 per capita each year, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

But last fall, several Maine pharmacy organizations joined with a major pharmaceutical trade group to challenge the law, arguing it jeopardizes the safety of the nation’s prescription drug supply and opens the door to counterfeit and tainted medications. The lawsuit lost steam in May when a federal judge dismissed PhRMA, a national trade group representing drug companies, as a plaintiff.

The suit has continued, however, on the basis that the law allows unfair foreign competition. The plaintiffs seek to ultimately invalidate the law, which took effect on Oct. 9, 2013.

Kenneth McCall, president of the Maine Pharmacy Association, a party to the suit, urged Maine consumers to view the new site with skepticism. The National Association of Pharmacy Boards estimates that 98 percent of online pharmacies fail to meet U.S. standards, he said. “Are you getting what your doctor prescribed?” he said. “There’s no guarantee here.”

Maine’s new law and the subsequent lawsuit have particularly re-ignited concerns about importing drugs from Canada. A 2005 U.S. Food and Drug Administration investigation found that most drugs ordered from Canadian-fronted websites originated in other countries.

Foreign pharmacies aren’t required to apply for a Maine license, provided they meet their own country’s regulatory requirements. Great British Drugstore is licensed in the U.K. and U.K.-registered pharmacists dispense its medications, O’Brien said. Its parent company already operates a mail-order pharmacy business overseas, in addition to its brick-and-mortar locations.

While some of the Canadian sites have stirred concerns, all of Great British Drugstore’s medications are sourced from U.K. wholesalers supplied directly by drug manufacturers, O’Brien said.

“We’re not really comparing ourselves to the Canadian websites that are sourcing from … India, Mauritius, from Turkey, from all different places,” she said, adding that there’s “absolutely zero potential for counterfeits” in the site’s system.

The Maine Pharmacy Association, joined by the Retail Association of Maine, highlighted U.K. regulations that prohibit U.K. pharmacists from supplying medicines for prescriptions based in the U.S. “Great British Drug Store is violating both U.S. and U.K. laws,” the groups said in a statement Wednesday.

O’Brien said both U.S. and U.K. legal counsel consulted with U.K. regulators and have signed off on the operation. Customers must fill out a health questionnaire on the site, which will be reviewed by a U.K. physician with 20 years of experience, Dr. Helen Webberley. If Webberley finds no problems, she will recreate each prescription for the U.K., O’Brien said.

“Patients are legally allowed to import, we’re legally allowed to export, we’re legally allowed to dispense,” O’Brien said.

By selling medications to Mainers at prices patients pay in Britain — which negotiates drug costs under the publicly funded National Health Service — Great British Drugstore can offer steep discounts, O’Brien said.

For example, Great British Drugstore markets a pack of 28 40-milligram pills of Lipitor, a cholesterol-lowering medication, at $108.40. The same pills cost more than double that at pharmacies including CVS, Walmart and Walgreens, according to the site.

Maine consumers may log onto the site to order their medications, then upload, fax or scan and email their prescription, O’Brien explained. Each order is then prepared for dispensing, but held back until Great British Drugstore receives the original prescription by mail at its Portland office, she said.

Consumers must click a button to confirm they live in Maine. The site won’t verify residency but ships drugs only to a Maine address.

Great British Drugstore ships orders within 48 hours, much shorter than the 21 days often offered by Canadian-fronted pharmacies, O’Brien said.

The site can sell any brand-name or generic drug approved by the U.S. FDA. So far, about 200 medications are listed, with thousands more due to be added as the site gets off the ground, O’Brien said. For now, consumers can contact the online pharmacy if they can’t find the medication they need, she said.

“In theory we can supply anything that a prescription is presented to us for,” she said.

Great British Drugstore, which expects to eventually employ three people locally, has modest growth plans in Maine, where retail pharmacies sold nearly $1.4 billion worth of prescription drugs in 2013. The online pharmacy seeks to provide an alternative for Mainers who want lower-cost drugs, O’Brien said.

“We don’t expect that every single prescription in Maine is going to come to us,” she said.

That’s an appropriate assumption, given that 86 percent of all drugs dispensed by U.S. pharmacies are generic medications that usually cost less here than overseas, said Gabriel Levitt, vice president of PharmacyChecker.com, which evaluates and verifies online pharmacies and compares prescription drug prices.

“The overwhelming majority of pharmacy customers will not be shopping from Canada or the U.K.,” he said.

Maine residents struggling with the “crazy burden of high drug prices here” would be “perfectly safe buying from licensed pharmacies in the U.K.,” he said.

Great British Drugstore has applied to Pharmacy Checker’s verification program and the review is ongoing, Levitt said. “What stands out with Great British Drugstore is that it will only be filling prescription orders sourced from the U.K., whereas many international online pharmacies, including safe ones in our program, fill orders through licensed pharmacies in countries that are not exempted under Maine law,” he said.

But McCall remains unconvinced that the new site is safe for Maine consumers. Foreign online pharmacies that operate outside the purview of the FDA and state regulators provide little accountability, potentially leaving customers with no recourse if they order drugs that harm them, he said.

“You can make any claims you want online,” McCall said.

Archived:
archive.is/kEW9u

R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 20:47

'British Virtual Drugstore Offers Maine Consumers Cheaper Prescriptions'
October 8, 2014
(extract)
"That state law that opened the door to these transactions is under legal challenge, and one of the plaintiffs in the suit is the Maine Pharmacy Association. Past president Kenneth McCall questions the safety of online pharmacies. He cites the case of another operation - Canadadrugcenter.com - that has also advertised cheap prescription drugs in Maine newspapers.

"And we found out, in fact, that the medicines they were shipping were not approved by Canada Health, and had nothing to do with Canadian pharmacists or pharmacies," McCall says. "In fact, they were from Mauritius, India, Turkey. So I caution people here in Maine to be alert, be skeptical. And to not just take what you read on an Internet website at face value."

McCall says Great British Drug Store itself violates U.K. law, which prohibits pharmacists there from filling prescriptions from doctors in the the U.S. But Great British Drug Store's Mary O'Brien says there's actually a legal work-around to that problem. "It's called shadow prescribing," she says.

Shadow prescribing works like this: A U.K. physician will review every order from Maine, and, if approved, will recreate the prescription and send it to be filled. (continues)

www.mainepublic.org/health/2014-10-08/british-virtual-drugstore-offers-maine-consumers-cheaper-prescriptions

merrymouse · 26/07/2021 20:53

By selling medications to Mainers at prices patients pay in Britain — which negotiates drug costs under the publicly funded National Health Service — Great British Drugstore can offer steep discounts, O’Brien said.

But obviously the NHS wouldn’t be able to negotiate those prices if drug manufacturers believed they were just going to be sold on at a profit to other markets.

It’s very obviously dodgy.

CardinalLolzy · 26/07/2021 23:25

R0wantrees, you are phenomenal!

DanialWebb · 26/07/2021 23:51

GenderGP still do shadow prescribing. The Egyptian GP agrees to whatever drugs the customer wants, then the Romanian GP writes the prescription.

R0wantrees · 26/07/2021 23:58

DanialWebb When I saw the reference, I wondered if that would be the case.