Susie Green and Keira Bell on Newsnight

[OldeMagick]

It's about halfway in

Emily Maitlis not giving an inch

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000pyyc/newsnight-01122020

Green was shot down on the suicide statistics and Keira was measured and articulate as always. Green just ended up looking like a hyperbolic fool.

Susie Green is awful. Awful.

Racing to mention suicide without offering any reassurance or advice to anyone watching. Samaritans guidelines thrown out the window.

Very telling that the Tavistock didn't have someone to go on - you would think that it would have been absolutely vital for them to designate someone to be available for such things.

I'm very glad that Emily pulled Green up on the suicide claim.

Also, who on earth wouldn't want extra safeguards to be put in place to protect kids?

Mermaids needs to be investigated asap.

Also, who on earth wouldn't want extra safeguards to be put in place to protect kids?
Not Mermaids under Susie Green, apparently.

She really showed herself up with this one.

I will try to see it if it comes available to Australia. But from what you’ve all said Keira Bell is awesome and lies and feelings are getting short shrift.

Placemarking to watch this later.

Susie Green came across abysmally, I thought. She seems to have no sense of self-awareness. She dismisses the safeguarding issues. Doesn't even pay lip service to the notion that it's important to ensure that only children who are genuinely trans should receive treatment. Can't empathise with Keira Bell or admit that what has been done to Keira is pretty horrific.

She pushes the suicide narrative in a most irresponsible manner. There are clear guidelines on how to discuss suicide and she ignores them entirely.

I thought Emily Maitlis was great. Really challenged some of the nonsense coming from SG.

I also got the impression that Newsnight was pretty proud of some of the previous reporting it has done in this area.

I also got the impression that Newsnight was pretty proud of some of the previous reporting it has done in this area.

I noticed that, they have reported concerns seriously before.

I completely agree that mermaids need investigating, I can't think of another charity supporting children through medical treatment that has so little understanding or respect for scientific evidence.

That was so strange. Susie Green came across as desperately wanting to medicate under 16s.

Courts deal in evidence. Not anecdotes.

I've just watched it. SG did herself no favours. She berated the court for relying on hearsay, yet did exactly the same to try and justify her arguments.

I think it was a shame Keira didn't stress the speed with which it happened, and that she had only been seen 3 times before being put on blockers. I think there will be many people for whom the ruling was the first day they have really heard about what is going on, and the lack of mental health support and instant affirmation seem huge red flags even before you get to irreversible damage being done by drugs being prescribed like smarties.

SG and Mermaids repeatedly disregard the Samaritan guidelines on suicide as it's one of their most important arguments for supporting children and their families, or rather the idea of it.

Which begs the question, how many families turned to Mermaids for general support who were told to affirm their children's identity to "save their lives"? I wish a study could be done to find this out.

This was mentioned on the other thread. I felt it was unfair that keira was questioned in a way that made her responsible for the treatment of other children when all she did was present her evidence and the judge made the calls. It wasn't her fault there wee no records no follow ups etc no way of backing up the claims it was a successful strategy.

But that was nothing compared to what SG got. As I and others said on the other thread. All this information about Dutch studies etc where was it on the day. Mermaids and stonewall were given the chance to present evidence and it didn't meet the standards required. They had the chance to present all this.

I couldn't believe how having spent the day "winding up" their followers on twitter with more nonsense, she then went live on air sounding like she was begging people to start hurting themselves. There was absolutely no need to lie about the suicides and I was pleased to see EM pull her up on that.

Haven't they learnt to actually get some facts together yet rather than unsubstantiated comments about the people shed spoken to. There were extracts from.trans people/children in the judgment.

I thought EM.was very clever in managing to realky back her into the corner where she had her pinned to the fact that she had a problem.with what was merely an extra layer of checks. I mean it doesn't look good when you object to making sure there is sufficient checks befire giving experimental drugs

Please let this be the beginning of the end for the sinister group that is mermaids.

@Suckmyfatone

That was so strange. Susie Green came across as desperately wanting to medicate under 16s.

Courts deal in evidence. Not anecdotes.

Weird, wasn't it, the way she called the court ruling 'a disaster.'

Really? Making sure that children understand the long-term consequences of their decisions before being set on a pathway of irreversible physical changes including sterility is a 'disaster'?

How dim do you have to be to go on national television and describe the act of protecting children 'a disaster'? She couldn't even couch her views in more nuanced language or pretend to support the court's aim of looking after children.

Courts do deal in evidence. The Tavistock had every opportunity to provide it. Mermaids and Stonewall were given the chance to put forward evidence too. If they had been able to supply anything that was (a) new and (b) relevant to the case, they would have been invited to join the case as interveners, in the same way that Transgender Trend was.

The evidence wasn't there.

Susie Green is completely losing it on Twitter.

Pressed post too soon. At first I found it funny at her telling people to fuck off (so dignified) but this post is a bridge too far for me.

@Rhynswynd

I will try to see it if it comes available to Australia. But from what you’ve all said Keira Bell is awesome and lies and feelings are getting short shrift.

Newsnight have put it on YouTube:

EM was brilliant - she stuck to the facts, and was quick to dismiss the (very unprofessional) suicide claims made by SG.

I thought she gave a bit of a triumphant smile to the camera at the end of the programme. Thank you so much, if you happen to read this, Emily, for keeping the need to safeguard children at the heart of the agenda.

Mermaids and stonewall were given the chance to present evidence

Just to be clear, mermaids did not get to present evidence in court. They have no medical expertise or knowledge, as clearly demonstrated by SG in this interview.

It was the actual Tavistock who got to present their case, and they didn't have evidence. And unlike SG they do understand what evidence means.

I'm sure the refusal for them to take part is on here somewhere, but this is the first link I found.

https://christianconcern.com/comment/stonewall-and-mermaids-refused-permission-to-intervene-in-tavistock-case/

@testing987654321

Mermaids and stonewall were given the chance to present evidence

Just to be clear, mermaids did not get to present evidence in court. They have no medical expertise or knowledge, as clearly demonstrated by SG in this interview.

It was the actual Tavistock who got to present their case, and they didn't have evidence. And unlike SG they do understand what evidence means.

I'm sure the refusal for them to take part is on here somewhere, but this is the first link I found.

[[https://christianconcern.com/comment/stonewall-and-mermaids-refused-permission-to-intervene-in-tavistock-case]]/

My understanding from Transgender Trend is that Mermaids and Stonewall would have been granted permission to intervene if they had anything new to add. They were given the same chance as Transgender Trend.

TT showed that they had evidence relevant to the case and were granted permission to intervene. Stonewall and Mermaids didn't show that and so were refused. However, they had the same opportunity as TT.

But yeah, they didn't even get as far as court.

We need to move away from this notion of 'trans kids'. It's an invented term - clever PR. I've fallen into the trap of using it before because it's easy shorthand.

Reading yesterdays judgement it's clear there is no such concrete thing. What we have is a group of children who for a wide variety of complex reasons are either distressed or GNC and end up at the Tavistock.

Labelling them from the outset with a group identity before exploration has taken place is part of the problem. We know that left to go through a natural puberty the majority will grow out of gender dysphoria therefore it's unhelpful for lobby groups, clinicians and especially the media to be constantly affirming the idea of trans kids, particularly in those that are very young.

I posted this link to this twitter on the other thread but here are some details of the Dutch study.

twitter.com/zaneemma/status/1332930732558221312?s=21

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0906jnr

The iPlayer link doesn't work outside UK but this clip from Newsnight's own website works for me ☝️