Susie Green and Keira Bell on Newsnight

[OldeMagick]

It's about halfway in

Emily Maitlis not giving an inch

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000pyyc/newsnight-01122020

I am starting to despair. My professional body (healthcare) now have a LGBTQ etc twitter account. It was launched last weekend and I see the stuff they post as someone I follow (very influential person in the overall organisation) likes or retweets everything. This morning I woke up to a thread about Keira's case and how wrong it is with links to Mermaids. I feel I cannot post what I really want to say, but am contemplating an angry email to the said prof body who really should not be endorsing this kind of social media post. Came home tonight to an email from them asking me to take part in a survey about equality, diversity & inclusion. I will respond........

I meant MTF as transmen rather that transwomen and vice versa, obviously! Subsets of existing sex.

northender these days, that situation would really diminish my faith in any organisation. Get stuck in on that survey 😁

@northender ....

This excellent Telegraph article draws attention to how schools will now have to change teaching diversity, with particular reference to Mermaids, Allsorts etc. This is the link for the MN thread which includes the Telegraph link and article text. It is very thorough. Your professional body should have their attention drawn to it as the article spells out the legal implications of the Mermaids literature. Sorry that is not too clear, but check out the article. x

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4097812-Telegraph-article-on-the-Kiera-Bell-decision

Will do Aye
Thanks for that link Colour that's just the sort of thing I was looking for. I saw the Newsnight piece and thought Emily Maitlis played it perfectly.

am contemplating an angry email to the said prof body who really should not be endorsing this kind of social media post.

I should do this, with links to the judgement, and a pointing out that this was an objective, legal examination of facts and evidence from the Tavistock as the medical experts and their practice.

Mermaids has nothing to do with this: they're parents. They have no medical expertise and no professional brief at all. To be agreeing that this judgement is 'wrong' is questionable - how? In what way? What evidence was missed by the court or what bias or malpractice are you accusing the judge of? Or are you arguing that even though the Tavistock practice has been objectively found outside the law in a number of ways (Transgender trend list these clearly from the judgement) …. it's wrong not to experiment on children?

How? On what grounds? Why is Mermaids with their massive emotional and political involvement, a better judge of this than a court? And what stupid organisation at this point is going for 'lets not safeguard children'?

I think my favourite bit was where SG talks about how children are being denied bodily autonomy. By that rationale, presumably she'd also be absolutely cool about kids of 12 having sex with a 40 year old? Their body, their choice?

Also worth pointing out, tactfully, Mermaids were not allowed to intervene in this case. Not because of any prejudice or bias, but because they had nothing to offer in terms of relevancy to the case or the findings, because what they had was emotions, anecdotes, personal perspectives. Emotions do not transubstantiate an illegal act into being legal.

what happened to Keira Bell is awful. Her position relies on pretending someone else's suffering doesn't exist.

I have completed the survey. Got very excited at the point it asked for my gender identity, ticked "other" as that gave me access to a free text box! As I was explaining my annoyance at the mixing of sex & gender I noticed the next q was about whether my gender was the same as I was assigned at birth (with no free text box) so I went on to splutter that my sex was identified at birth as female, whilst gulping wine and shouting obscenities at the screen! Next stop, the email...

Their body, their choice?

Let them smoke too. It's their body to destroy as they see fit, right? As long as someone explains to them what lung cancer, emphysema or heart disease is first, a 12yo should be totally allowed to weigh it all up and make that decision. Autonomy innit. And get themselves covered in tattoos, get married, live on their own, etc.

Pathetic argument from them.

@yourhairiswinterfire

Their body, their choice?

Let them smoke too. It's their body to destroy as they see fit, right? As long as someone explains to them what lung cancer, emphysema or heart disease is first, a 12yo should be totally allowed to weigh it all up and make that decision. Autonomy innit. And get themselves covered in tattoos, get married, live on their own, etc.

Pathetic argument from them.

That’s a very good point. Ppl often point out the tattoos, drinking etc rules but the idea of letting them make their own mind up about smoking having warned them... it ls a much closer parallel and makes the point better about how you can tell young people but that isn’t how we let them decide anything else major. We know they wouldn’t be able to weigh it all up and make the right choice so the law makes it for them. Why would radical medical treatment be any different?

If we're all about bodily autonomy for children we should hand over decisions about their vaccinations too I guess? Given my babies' reactions (screechy reactions) to injections they'd all be vaccination-free but that'd be in line with their wishes so all good I suppose!

Children don't have autonomy (of any sort including bodily) because they don't have the capacity to make informed decisions. They make decisions based on what they want right here, right now. Forward thinking is not a key characteristic of a child. That's why they need parents, adults, laws to ensure they are being protected.

We now know the brain is not fully matured til around the ages of 23-25. IIRC that is the age many women detransition isn't it?

I think this is about this programme but the BBC has said it wasn't an issue that no trans person took part in this debate!

BBC rejects complaint after trans people left out of Newsnight debate on puberty blockers www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/newsnight-puberty-blockers-trans-children-bbc-b1806592.html