Susie Green and Keira Bell on Newsnight

[OldeMagick]

It's about halfway in

Emily Maitlis not giving an inch

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000pyyc/newsnight-01122020

It would have been good to pull her up on both those points as well as the suicide thing which she did

Yes that would have been good but honestly I dont think she needed to in the end. She managed to get her to a point where she was visibly raging and lying and had no idea what she was even saying..

She dug herself a big enough hole she didn't need any more "help" to discredit herself. It took what? 2 questions to get there...

How could someone send a card to Kiera/Mrs A and the team?

@OvaHere

We need to move away from this notion of 'trans kids'. It's an invented term - clever PR. I've fallen into the trap of using it before because it's easy shorthand.

Reading yesterdays judgement it's clear there is no such concrete thing. What we have is a group of children who for a wide variety of complex reasons are either distressed or GNC and end up at the Tavistock.

Labelling them from the outset with a group identity before exploration has taken place is part of the problem. We know that left to go through a natural puberty the majority will grow out of gender dysphoria therefore it's unhelpful for lobby groups, clinicians and especially the media to be constantly affirming the idea of trans kids, particularly in those that are very young.

Agree with this.

Here's the Elizabeth Van Horn interview from last November -

This is the main reason I think social transitioning is fundamentally harmful. Changing names and pronouns and affirmation are not neutral.

So, we might expect the CEO of a support charity to say:

‘it’s deeply regrettable that this treatment has caused so much harm to some young people. We need to ensure going forward that lessons are learnt and that robust safeguards are put in place to ensure the best outcome for every young person.’

What we got from the CEO of Mermaids:

‘It’s only less than 1% of people who feel they were too young and inexperienced to consent to life changing treatment, and that’s hardly any, so why should we take extra care to ensure it’s the right treatment for everyone?’

One might expect the CEO of a support charity to say:

‘I would encourage any young person who is struggling with this news to reach out for support, either from our helpline where we will have trained counsellors on hand, or your parents, school or GP. Please be assured that we are working very hard to make sure that the very best treatment is available to help you.’

What we got from the CEO of Mermaids:

‘Now you’re all going to have to go through the torture of puberty. It’s no wonder you’re all going to want to kill yourselves.’

This case outcome has been submerged by the vaccine news. I am really pleased about the vaccine, but sorry that there probably won't be much more attention paid to this on MSM.

@Whatisthisfuckery

So, we might expect the CEO of a support charity to say:

‘it’s deeply regrettable that this treatment has caused so much harm to some young people. We need to ensure going forward that lessons are learnt and that robust safeguards are put in place to ensure the best outcome for every young person.’

What we got from the CEO of Mermaids:

‘It’s only less than 1% of people who feel they were too young and inexperienced to consent to life changing treatment, and that’s hardly any, so why should we take extra care to ensure it’s the right treatment for everyone?’

One might expect the CEO of a support charity to say:

‘I would encourage any young person who is struggling with this news to reach out for support, either from our helpline where we will have trained counsellors on hand, or your parents, school or GP. Please be assured that we are working very hard to make sure that the very best treatment is available to help you.’

What we got from the CEO of Mermaids:

‘Now you’re all going to have to go through the torture of puberty. It’s no wonder you’re all going to want to kill yourselves.’

Exactly. It's so irresponsible I find it almost beyond comprehension.

I notice Susie Green kept saying 'young people' as though it softens what's been going on here.

Say what they are Susie, they're children. They're not just small adults, they're not young adults, they're children who have been put on lifelong treatment, deemed by the high court to be experimental, and they weren't old enough to understand the full consequences. 'Professionals' have been experimenting on children.

@SecondRow

FamilyofAliens, When SG said "I've been involved in this for 21 years, BECAUSE..." and then changed course mid-sentence, it sounded like she thought better of saying "because I put my son on blockers acquired abroad at 12 and got him surgery on his 16th birthday".

It was worse than that, her exact words were ‘I’ve been working in this field for like, over 21 years, because...’ before trailing off.

But she’s only been employed by Mermaids since 2016.

So she must consider raising a ‘trans’ child to be part of her lifework.

@Whatisthisfuckery

So, we might expect the CEO of a support charity to say:

‘it’s deeply regrettable that this treatment has caused so much harm to some young people. We need to ensure going forward that lessons are learnt and that robust safeguards are put in place to ensure the best outcome for every young person.’

What we got from the CEO of Mermaids:

‘It’s only less than 1% of people who feel they were too young and inexperienced to consent to life changing treatment, and that’s hardly any, so why should we take extra care to ensure it’s the right treatment for everyone?’

One might expect the CEO of a support charity to say:

‘I would encourage any young person who is struggling with this news to reach out for support, either from our helpline where we will have trained counsellors on hand, or your parents, school or GP. Please be assured that we are working very hard to make sure that the very best treatment is available to help you.’

What we got from the CEO of Mermaids:

‘Now you’re all going to have to go through the torture of puberty. It’s no wonder you’re all going to want to kill yourselves.’

Exactly this.

Pre Susie, Mermaids was an entirely sane org aisation, that mostly advocated supportive watchful waiting. Under her remit it has become quite dangerous. The board should be challenging her robustly on her misuse of suicidality, and how support for children gets repeatedly buried under her own need to be right.

EM didn't challenge SG on: 1% detransition, Dutch research

I agree about this. I am massively sceptical about the 1% detransition - how can we possibly know, given that most of the children seen by the Tavistock have had the treatment in the last 5-10 years? We're probably going to have to wait another 5 years until we see a huge swathe of detransitioners - which I feel is inevitable.

I'd also like to have seen a challenge to the Dutch research, though possibly Maitlis didn't have that info at her fingertips.

I really wish Maitlis had pushed Green on the reality of what transition involves - namely double mastectomy, cross-sex hormones that have long-term health effects, including possible loss of fertility, plus loss of sexual function, plus the creation of non-functioning genitalia.

Nonetheless Green came across badly. She didn't even have the decency or political nous to say how sympathetic she felt to Keira's situation. Whatthisfuckery is absolutely right about what Green might be expected to say versus what she actually said. The sooner Mermaids goes the way of Kids Company, the better.

@endofthelinefinally

This case outcome has been submerged by the vaccine news. I am really pleased about the vaccine, but sorry that there probably won't be much more attention paid to this on MSM.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for something in the Sundays.

Journos have known that something smells rotten at GIDS for ages and ages and the ruling is a great opportunity to print anything else they’ve been working on.

@UpperLowercaseSymbolNumber

Susie Green is completely losing it on Twitter.

Link? All i can see is her post of the ruling yesterday.

@UpperLowercaseSymbolNumber

Pressed post too soon. At first I found it funny at her telling people to fuck off (so dignified) but this post is a bridge too far for me.

‘First they came for the trans kids and stuck them on experimental drugs which sterilised them and destroyed their sexual functioning.

Then they came for school children, teaching them porn and harmful sexual practices and telling them they were not allowed boundaries...

On a lighter note did anyone else think Susie Green was wearing a dressing gown on Newsnight? It took me a couple of minutes to work out that it was actually a white hoodie.

I'm kind of disappointed, ranting in a dressing gown would have fitted nicely with the segment.

We need to move away from this notion of 'trans kids'. It's an invented term - clever PR. I've fallen into the trap of using it before because it's easy shorthand.

Yes. The Newsnight report referred to 'transgender children'. What is a 'transgender child'? Afaik even Tavistock tries to avoid this language.

Keira's case is going to be discussed on Jeremy Vine show on R2 today, at about 1. Should be interesting...

On a lighter note did anyone else think Susie Green was wearing a dressing gown on Newsnight? It took me a couple of minutes to work out that it was actually a white hoodie

No, but the glasses, the shaking and the rage did remind me of someone.. 🐟

Yet another adult who doesn’t understand what ‘life saving’ actually means when it comes to medicine.

Puberty is not a disease that needs a cure.

@OhHolyJesus

I think EM could have pushed further but I enjoyed seeing SG getting huffy and agitated. GIDS have stopped referrals and Big Pharma stocks are down.

Keira, Mrs A, Susan and Marcus Evans and Stephanie D-A have done more for children that Mermaids ever did or ever could.

I am surprised Big Pharma stocks are down considering the huge purchases going in at the moment for Covid vaccines which I would have thought would dwarf this.

@Whatwouldscullydo

On a lighter note did anyone else think Susie Green was wearing a dressing gown on Newsnight? It took me a couple of minutes to work out that it was actually a white hoodie

No, but the glasses, the shaking and the rage did remind me of someone.. 🐟

It’s jeremy vine

He will no doubt do a very special soft voice

Hope there are no false suicide claims

Also, it is the BBC. She probably has to tread carefully.

The Keira Bell case was covered on Woman's Hour this morning*. They had Deb Cohen (from Newsnight) to explain what it was all about and it was surprising to hear her give a rather watered-down acount of the case. It felt like she was minimising the strength of the criticisms in the judgement and she seemed to skim very quickly over the reason for the criticisms, that is the nature of the consequences for children and young people.

I think she was torn between wanting to inform the audience and not wanting to scare the horses and leaned a fair bit to appease the latter. Despite some parts of the BBC standing up and wanting to be responsible in reporting about this issue, I think institutionally the BBC is scared, probably about upsetting progressives, and that's informing much of their coverage.

• www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000py8z, should be available to listen again soon

good luck getting any of this Board to challenge her

mermaidsuk.org.uk/staff-and-trustees/