Women win guarantee over female only public lavatories - the Times

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7355c886-1aea-11eb-8493-5b46eb56a071?shareToken=4752a364029a4a557a2ba26a99d985d4

So where is the evidence that males who are transwomen are less dangerous to women than other males?

It isn't 'lots' of transwomen, is it though? Given that the vast majority don't have surgery or take hormones. & obviously, a unisex toilet would have cubicles. As, for that matter, does a men's toilet.

& you can't very well keep simultaneously arguing that hardly any male transwomen would want in to a supposedly 'trans inclusive women's toilet', as opposed to a unisex one, alongside there being what was it? '500,000' transwomen routinely using female facilities for 'decades'?

@Winesalot

I think how this works is we have to let jj & any other male in until an unspecified number of women have been assaulted, & when we hit whatever that number is, he will 're consider' whether we have legitimate concerns or not.

Yes. Any number of instances will not matter to a person determined to hand wave the risk away. There have been reported instances in the UK that are documented... but these will always be minimized.

In a country in which 35 million women and girls use women's toilets probably most days there has just been one recorded assault on a woman by a trans woman, and it's doubtful toilets policed by birth sex would have prevented it. That's a huge data set. If trans inclusion in toilets was a demonstrable risk there should be hundreds of these cases. But there aren't. Even globally there aren't. There's about three I think, specifically relating to toilets, over the course of a decade, on a planet of nearly four billion women.

Was it appropriate for me to be told to ask Karen Jones to be a female chaperone when my CPTSD was triggered by being in my home with males? (I needed work doing in my house, which is why I needed a female chaperone).

Actually, my mistake jj - you said '50,000'. Which is still quite a lot, to be fair.

Definitely enough to make a case for separate provision with unisex facilities they can freely access

I just can't imagine what you're describing, and I can't imagine women getting abuse or harassment for dressing in a 'masculine' style, because it's quite normal for women to dress like that.

Then perhaps talk to some butch lesbians about the shit they get sometimes.

@CorvusPurpureus

Actually, my mistake jj - you said '50,000'. Which is still quite a lot, to be fair.

Definitely enough to make a case for separate provision with unisex facilities they can freely access

where should they go tomorrow?

Jj1968 Still waiting for the evidence male transwomen are less dangerous than other males?

Males in female toilets, no, that should never happen. Very tired of men telling women what to do and what to accept. Men desperate to tell women why they should accept this is just weird. Stay in your male spaces and sort your gender problems out with the other males. Women don’t have to make room for men.

This nonsense is just tedious and even if 99% of women weren’t bothered ( absolute nonsense obviously) the 1% that are bothered take priority as it would affect them adversely if males were let in but has no affect on the 99%.

Or talk to me, @OldCrone . Except you might not see this - my comments seem to be invisible to some posters for some reason.

Where should they go tomorrow?

Well, you've had 'decades' to think about that, to be fair.

& I'm rather more concerned about where my daughters & I should go tomorrow, if we want female only toilets.

Facefull.

But why is it not enough that we DON'T WANT to share these spaces with males? Laying aside the risks / statistics / lack thereof, why can't you just accept that we want and are entitled to our own spaces? Even if there was no risk of assault etc, why is it not enough that it makes women uncomfortable or embarrassed, or anxious, nervous, unsettled? Why should we have to further justify it more than this?

Do you know I hear in some areas of the cities the women are wearing trousers these days? Where will it end. They'll be allowing us to vote next or even ask for our own toilet facilities, just imagine.

@Facefullofcake

Or talk to me, *@OldCrone* . Except you might not see this - my comments seem to be invisible to some posters for some reason.

Some posters have the visual equivalent of selective hearing.

For clarity not directing that at oldcrone.

Maybe it's just too curvebally.
I'd forgotten about the chaperone thing until just now - I'm really pissed off about it. And it made the penny drop today that if I don't feel safe indoors with them, I sure as hell don't feel safe sharing a loo with them or any of the (ever increasing number of) current trans women sex offenders when they get out. Which can only be avoided by providing single sex spaces.

But hey ho, I'm statistically unlucky to have met even one of them.

It influenced my shift from 'TWAW, bigots!' to 'single sex spaces are fucking important' - and I apologise to all women in that situation who I hadn't previously prioritised. I completely admit that I was wrong and it took multiple personal bad experiences to make me realise it.

@CorvusPurpureus

Where should they go tomorrow?

Well, you've had 'decades' to think about that, to be fair.

& I'm rather more concerned about where my daughters & I should go tomorrow, if we want female only toilets.

That's not really an answer is it? Where should a trans wman, whose been using women's toilets for decades go tomorrow?

And I don't know where you should go. Toilets have always been based on gender so I don't know where you have been going. I would have suggested North Carolina but that didn't work out.

What is gender?

@Facefullofcake

Or talk to me, *@OldCrone* . Except you might not see this - my comments seem to be invisible to some posters for some reason.

Sorry I didn't understand your post. If you mean Karen Jones who was convicted of rape, then no I don;t think it's appropriate that she should have a job as a chaperone. I'm astonished that she does, I'd have thought her probation arrangements would have prevented it.

@Facefullofcake

Or talk to me, *@OldCrone* . Except you might not see this - my comments seem to be invisible to some posters for some reason.

Sorry - I didn't see your post until after I'd posted mine. I was replying to jj's post just before yours. Sorry if my post seemed insensitive.

I've occasionally been mistaken for a man (admittedly usually when riding a motorcycle), but I've not experienced abuse as part of that. But I'm not denying that it happens to others, and I'm sorry you've had to put up with that.

Sorry Facefull for what you’ve been through.

It’s not up to women to solve the problems of males. We have enough to worry about.

It's not really an answer because I don't really think it's my problem to figure out where male people should go to use the toilet, other than 'not in women's toilets thank you very much'.

& no, toilets aren't segregated by gender. How could they be? We'd all need to carry our own portable latrine tent wherever we went, to accommodate a more or less infinite number of genders.

We need toilets & other spaces for women.

& the more you tell us we can't have them, because you & other males don't like the idea of us having them & will damn well invade them whether we like it or not, the less I personally care whether you have facilities that you can use that aren't just for males.

You're literally pissing all over women's goodwill, & the supply is not inexhaustible.

Apparently men have been using ladies loos for decades with zero problems. Presumably the women who want to have been using men's as well with absolutely no problems whatsoever. All based on gender presentation apparently.

So what on earth caused organisations like the BBC, the civil service, universities, the old vic etc create "gender neutral" toilets instead of ones for men and women?
It's a complete mystery isn't it?