Still attacking M Berns....

[DinosaursDontTwit]

I am usually a lurker on this board, and have read a bit here about Magdalen Berns. I found this and it made me feel ill it is so vicious and cruel. mobile.twitter.com/sineadactually/status/1314985057937956864

No wonder so many feminists are too scared to speak out, if this is the resulting hate, even after death....

How can anyone defend that tweet though?

So she lost her rag and screamed at her abusers. So what? Who wouldn’t break under relentless attack? Where is she threatening violence, trying to get them sacked or wishing harm on their children? Nowhere. All those are routine TRA tactics. A sweary rant is not in the same league as the death threats and drooling rape fantasies they showered her with.

A sweary rant

Versus people mocking the fact that she died far too young. I know who's side I'm on.

I don't expect everyone to agree with her tweet. I do expect anyone condemning her tweet to also condemn the sick disgusting behaviour of someone gleefully mocking her death though. It's almost like some people think she deserved that.

who is Sinead Actually? A transwoman?

Pointing out the parallel between white people wearing blackface and male people identifying/presenting as women is controversial but I think it's a perfectly reasonable way of seeing it. I don't see how it is "racist" per se, but I do understand that many black people don't think it's a valid comparison and may find it personally offensive, so I don't generally use it myself.

She is not inciting violence

It does incite hatred though, if not violence.
Maybe people are OK with that, but I'm not.

Yes, it's just the same misogynist crap all over again. Males can threaten physical and sexual violence, try and get women sacked from their jobs, lecture women about what they are and what they are not, and what feminism is and is not.

Women must be kind and polite at all times. If they ever step out of line, if they ever get angry, if they ever say something unkind, then they are fair game for the most despicable of abuse to be rained down on them, even when they are dead.

Same 'aul shite.

Yes, it's just the same misogynist crap all over again. Males can threaten physical and sexual violence, try and get women sacked from their jobs, lecture women about what they are and what they are not, and what feminism is and is not.

Women must be kind and polite at all times. If they ever step out of line, if they ever get angry, if they ever say something unkind, then they are fair game for the most despicable of abuse to be rained down on them, even when they are dead.

Yes, precisely.

Women must be kind and polite at all times. If they ever step out of line, if they ever get angry, if they ever say something unkind, then they are fair game for the most despicable of abuse to be rained down on them, even when they are dead

Nobody, anywhere, has said any of that is OK.
Anyone who does send abuse/threats is disgusting, goes without saying.
And of course women don't have to be kind and polite at all times, fuck that.
There's a world of difference between inciting and whipping up hate and mistrust between a minority group and "women being rude" though and I don't get how people can't or won't see that.

And of course women don't have to be kind and polite at all times, fuck that.

Exactly. And that was one time when MB wasn't being polite or kind.

Or do you only believe what you say until you come up against an actual example of it in practice?

Nobody, anywhere, has said any of that is OK.

Yes they have. And if you genuinely didn't know that, considering how many threads you've been on which have mentioned it, you aren't paying very much attention.

And that was one time when MB wasn't being polite or kind

How can you say that (assuming) you've read it?
I can only surmise you must be absolutely fine with that level of transphobia and hatred if so.
It's not a case of "just a woman being rude" I mean, what?

It's simply a point about cultural appropriation, in the same way people speak about blackface, made in very strong terms and unpalatable for many. It also fails to endorse the gender identity ideology position that the males to whom she refers are women. She doesn't believe they are.That's all.

Her anger is about what this ideology has done to women's and lesbians' rights.

Obviously lesbians are women. I should have said "and in particular lesbians' rights"

It's simply a point about cultural appropriation, in the same way people speak about blackface, made in very strong terms and unpalatable for many

Yes, I know.
The fact you can't see the transphobia in that and preface it with a "simply" to boot says it all.

I've agreed it was a sweary rant, I've agreed it wasn't polite or kind.

I don't agree that it's inciting hatred.

I do think it's disgusting that people are mocking a young woman having died.

If you watch Magdalen's videos she's very clear that she is fine with blokes presenting as they wish, she just knows they can't become women. She's extremely logical and reasonable.

I do think it's disgusting that people are mocking a young woman having died

So do I.

The fact you can't see the transphobia

She doesn't believe males are women, or lesbians, and she's very angry about being gaslighted that they are. That's the "transphobia".

She doesn't believe males are women, or lesbians, and she's very angry about being gaslighted that they are. That's the "transphobia"

I don't even know why I'm bothering biting, but.... I was talking about the tweet.
And I think you know that.

As I said, Magdalen Berns believed that men cannot become women, believed that men dressing as women is often a fetish (do you believe that autogynephilia doesn't exist or what then?), believed that womanhood and women's oppression is being appropriated by males and that its not a costume that someone can put on.

She expressed these beliefs in an angry tweet. She had been relentlessly abused on Twitter and lost her shit back at them. If she had the level of hatred that you say she had, there would be loads of these tweets for them to reference, why is it only ever this one that we see?

So do I.

So now you do acknowledge that some people do absolutely think it's ok "for the most despicable of abuse to be rained down on them, even when they are dead"

That's something.

^I don't even know why I'm bothering biting, but.... I was talking about the tweet.
And I think you know that.^

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to you, so that makes two of us. Easy way to rectify that I guess!

@Quaagars

I do think it's disgusting that people are mocking a young woman having died

So do I.

You might as well follow “So do I” with a “but”, because you’re more concerned about the hurt feelings of trans people than you are about the disgusting comments that are being made about a young lesbian’s death.

If you watch Magdalen's videos she's very clear that she is fine with blokes presenting as they wish, she just knows they can't become women. She's extremely logical and reasonable.

Exactly. In her Alex Drummond video, she makes it clear that she has no problem with men wearing dresses and 'feminine' clothing, but that that doesn't make them women. She questions why a man wearing a dress (or a boiler suit....remember Alex cleverly educates us about how 'women can fix cars too ) then becomes a woman, and why Alex isn't widening the bandwidth of male, and why men should be able to wear dresses without getting shit from other men for it.