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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Still attacking M Berns....

167 replies

DinosaursDontTwit · 11/10/2020 07:17

I am usually a lurker on this board, and have read a bit here about Magdalen Berns. I found this and it made me feel ill it is so vicious and cruel. mobile.twitter.com/sineadactually/status/1314985057937956864

No wonder so many feminists are too scared to speak out, if this is the resulting hate, even after death....

OP posts:
NRatched · 12/10/2020 00:10

Meaning, as many here would, 'GNC is great, wear what you want. But it has no bearing on your sex'. An entirely sensible view tbh. I am sure you disagree though, given the previous answer.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 12/10/2020 00:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ItsLateHumpty · 12/10/2020 00:30

@Quaagars

Her videos make quite clear she had no issue with people wearing what they want and stuff

Presumably as long as they're not trans, that is?
Then it sounds like she had an issue with them.

Eh?

How do clothes / hairstyle etc make someone ‘trans’?

Bit presumptuous and transphobic I’d say.

Quaagars · 12/10/2020 00:36

How do clothes / hairstyle etc make someone ‘trans’?

They don't.

Greencoatblue · 12/10/2020 00:47

TW aren't women, they're trans women, in other words people who were born as male who prefer to identify as female but retain male chromosomes (and usually male bodies)
. Or maybe I've completely misunderstood? Would some kind intelligent person please give me the definitions of female, male, trans women? I'm new to this and confused.
Quaagars you seem to know what's what, can you oblige?

Quaagars · 12/10/2020 00:55

I'm new to this and confused

No you're not.
A quick advanced search to see if genuinely new and confused shows that's clearly not the case.
Not sure why would anyone be donating to crowdfunders as a completely new member who had no idea what they were donating to?

Greencoatblue · 12/10/2020 01:05

When did I join mumsnet Quaagars? How new is new? I was instantly awakened when I found this board, but someone like you who has been here lots longer will obviously be far more informed. Or can't you provide definitions? I was dismayed, when reading these boards, to realise quite how far misogyny extends. Still trying to convince DH who can't believe the infiltration has gone as far as I think it has
.

Quaagars · 12/10/2020 01:12

but someone like you who has been here lots longer will obviously be far more informed
When did I join then?
How long is long?
Maybe your eyes did pop right open straight away and immediately gave money to funds to issues you previously knew nothing about to a site you'd only just apparently joined.

Greencoatblue · 12/10/2020 01:19

Oh what a clever clogs you are Quaagars I don't even know how to do the searches you obviously do. Care to post a comparison on how long we've both been here? Or would that invalidate your argument? All I know is that for the relatively short time I've been here you have seemed to take the opposite stance to anybody upholding womens' ( ie adult human female) rights.

DinosaursDontTwit · 12/10/2020 03:27

Tits, that’s something women develop, as they grow from girls into women, just in case you’re wondering. Isn’t female anatomy amazing?

Quaagars
WTAF.
People really don't see this as abuse towards a minority group?
Just.... OK.

@Quaagars
This is a genuine question - I’m trying to understand this.
Could you please explain why the comment about girls developing breasts as they mature into women is abusive?
I am interpreting your response as meaning the referencing of the biological reality of a female child maturing into a female adult is somehow deliberately hurtful to trans people. Why is the factual biological maturing of female humans an attack on anyone?

OP posts:
EdgeOfACoin · 12/10/2020 07:07

I watched my first Magdalen Berns video on the anniversary of her death. I had heard so much about her by then, I wasn't sure what to expect. Someone loud, rude and aggressive, I think. By the time I watched her video, I had also seen the blackface Tweet referenced ad nauseum.

To me, she comes across as the equivalent of the little boy in the Emperor's New Clothes. Her attitude was very much 'yeah, but that's a man, though.' I found her less aggressive and more humerous in tone than I was expecting - she made me laugh.
She comes across as less strident than Posie Parker (Kellie-Jay Keen Minshull). I liked her dry style.

I appreciate that her style might not have chimed with everyone and I recognise that she may have put some people off. However, I think for others she might have been a more accessible figure. She certainly couldn't be dismissed as a middle-aged, moaning "Karen".

I can understand why the blackface Tweet was so controversial. In light of the videos I have seen, my take on it is that MB directed it at a very specific group of TRAs that were verbally abusing her. It certainly wasn't a recurring theme in her videos.

I tend to agree with PPs who say it is telling that that one Tweet is wheeled out continuously, despite MB's numerous videos and Tweets on the subject.

Vermeil · 12/10/2020 07:45

’ I personally found Berns' videos strident, hectoring and patronising. She does not deserve the abuse she is getting but personally she made feel the "gender critical" side was not a side I wanted to be on.’

You must seriously dislike the TRA side, then? I mean, if one person’s videos are so off putting, then thousands of tweets threatening all sorts of violence against women must have you running for the hills.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 12/10/2020 08:08

Men who have a fetish for periods,
men who have a fetish for breastfeeding,
men who pretend to be pregnant,
men who call themselves lesbians, and women just have to shut up?

She was rude, but she was right.

Comerford is a hypocrite.

mobile.twitter.com/antlawson1974/status/1275951486732730373?lang=en

similarminimer · 12/10/2020 08:27

@quagars - do you object to people being offended by and protesting against Drag?

ALittleBitofVitriol · 12/10/2020 08:36

Oh no, I'm sure Magdalen would have been crushed to be accused of rudeness Shock

"I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar" - M Berns

Fuck nice. It's not nice to appropriate womanhood, to push our boundaries and gaslight us.

FamilyOfAliens · 12/10/2020 08:37

Maybe transactivists who feel hurt when women talk about biological facts could take the lead from this person commenting on the Rosie Duffield interview in The Times (linked to on another thread):

As a black woman growing up in the 50s and 60s in an extremely racist society, my feelings were permanently hurt. But I dealt with it myself, faced the hurt, gathered my forces, and became all the stronger for having gone through that, and capable of fighting for others. Getting hurt sometimes is part of the human experience.
Somebody who is hurt when the bare facts are mentioned that one's sex cannot be changed needs therapy, not empty placation and lies.

diplodocusinermine · 12/10/2020 08:48

Quaagars, so you're talking about one tweet. One tweet in all of Magdalene Burns calm and rational output. One tweet after all the absolutely horrific abuse she suffered at the hands of tras.

Have you been onto the twitter feed of the person linked to in the op to berate them for their hate? No? Thought not.

Kantastic · 12/10/2020 09:34

Quackers please defend this:
terfisaslur.com/
this:
medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d
this:
transactivistsitow.tumblr.com/
and this:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3955276-resource-thread-of-tra-screenshots

Please explain how you are "OK with" each individual screenshot in the above compilations.

Once you've done that, I'll get back to you with an explanation of how someone who was continually subjected to a barrage of the above might make one intemperate tweet.

AmericanSlang · 12/10/2020 09:43

DoctorTwo you can get that on a t-shirt Smile

thefamousartistbirdyrose.com/products/magdalen-t-shirt-vest

Kantastic · 12/10/2020 09:49

@Quaagars sorry, username typo above! sometimes I type stuff like I mentally hear it.

EvenSupposing · 12/10/2020 09:56

@DidoLamenting

The current attacks on Twitter are horrible and indefensible.

I personally found Berns' videos strident, hectoring and patronising. She does not deserve the abuse she is getting but personally she made feel the "gender critical" side was not a side I wanted to be on.

There you are again with 'strident'. Such a misogynist word. It's OK by me if Magdalen puts misogynists off being GC. I'm not clear that we want misogynists overly much. I mean, maybe to make the tea? Brew
Quaagars · 12/10/2020 09:59

Kantastic
I'm not OK with abuse, and I don't condone it, and I've said that.
I think abuse is awful whatever "side" it's on, so why ask me to defend it?
I have never said I'm OK with it so not sure why you think I am.

DidoLamenting · 12/10/2020 10:04

@Vermeil

’ I personally found Berns' videos strident, hectoring and patronising. She does not deserve the abuse she is getting but personally she made feel the "gender critical" side was not a side I wanted to be on.’

You must seriously dislike the TRA side, then? I mean, if one person’s videos are so off putting, then thousands of tweets threatening all sorts of violence against women must have you running for the hills.

I haven't particularly watched any other than Blaire White. Berns seemed to really enjoy ridiculing White, particularly about the way White looks without paying much attention to what White was saying. Rather odd given White's views on TRAs , safeguarding of children, women's sport , cotton ceiling etc.
Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 12/10/2020 10:06

Quaggers

What do you think of the festizising of pregnancy?

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 12/10/2020 10:08

That was for Quaagars

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