Woman's Hour - 16 June - scrapping the proposed GRA amendments

[nauticant]

Just announced that this will be a topic for discussion tomorrow. It will be interesting whether, following a shift in people being more allowed to discuss this, and it being clear how this triggers violent misogyny, whether WH will realise that giving a fair hearing to the gender critical view is essential.

Laying bets as to who they have on to discuss it...

It's on right now.

First guest, Helen Belcher.

"In tears", "googling asylum in Ireland", "genital licences will be required".

Jane needs to ask about predatory men, not just go along with the feelz discussion

Nobody has mentioned self id FFS

I've just switched on. Jane sounds quite robustly no-bullshit? How's it gone before this?

Woman comes on as second guest:

"Can we put the emotionalism to one side, ie Belcher, and discuss the issues?"

What channel?

BBC Radio 4.

I know Jane has to be careful to appear unbiased, but honestly - she does take that too far sometimes. 'Really - how often does it happen?' when talking about men attacking women in toilets. It's such a stupid derail.

I don’t think it was a stupid derail because she brought in hospital wards etc that many people wouldn’t think of. It is more than shared toilets.

'Really - how often does it happen?' when talking about men attacking women in toilets. It's such a stupid derail.

Indeed - it begs the question "Why have separate toilets and changing rooms at all, then" Which is just what the TRAs want.

Joan Smith - calm, articulate, compassionate.

I'm not convinced that Jane Garvey prioritises the discussion over making sure she doesn't incur wrath against her. She could have said "the issue extends far beyond toilets" at many earlier points of the discussion.

Ah - I didn't hear the bit about hospital wards. Apologies.

But the fact is that it DOES happen. Katie Dolatowski attacked 2 young girls in separate incidents in toilets. And that's just off the top of my head and memorable because it made the national newspapers. Men attack women in all sorts of places and it's such a commonplace occurrence it doesn't even make local news most of the time. If those attacks don't currently often happen in toilets, as vicky says, it's because toilets are currently sex-segregated. This is just such a non-argument for letting men self-ID into women's spaces.

Jane sounded frankly terrified to be thought of as having an opinion at all - all the stuff about ‘we don’t want anyone to be feeling like this’. I suppose she doesn’t want to be the victim of a well-orchestrated hate campaign on Twitter telling her to ‘suck my lady dick’.

Interesting that the first guest ran off rather than debate...

I thought I'd have a look at how this is going down on twitter. The first thing I notice is Dr Finn Mackay pouring out misinformation like a firehose.

The basic facts are that men cannot be women. We have the right to say no. I really wish Jane didn’t always strive quite so hard to please the men. Has she ” these are not our crimes, “or “this never happens?”

Never mind the amendments - the entire GRA should be scrapped.

Sorry...not seen...

it begs the question "Why have separate toilets and changing rooms at all, then"

I think it's good when people come up with this. Because anybody with a grain of sense and/or life experience will think about it for ten seconds, and ...

Agree with you Antibles

Why is the first argument “How will this be policed?” = “How are you going to stop me then?”

How about you taking some responsibility for doing what you’ve been asked?

@purpleboy

What channel?

It's still on the live player (start from the beginning to catch the bit on the GRA)

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm