Woman's Hour - 16 June - scrapping the proposed GRA amendments

[nauticant]

Just announced that this will be a topic for discussion tomorrow. It will be interesting whether, following a shift in people being more allowed to discuss this, and it being clear how this triggers violent misogyny, whether WH will realise that giving a fair hearing to the gender critical view is essential.

Being able to articulate ones argument under questioning is surely a prerequisite for an MP?

Some individuals expect to be treated preferentially and with kid gloves due to being trans.

Smith had been willing to debate directly with Belcher, but Belcher had said she felt unable to debate (which seemed surprising in someone who recently stood for parliamentary election), so the two contributors were interviewed separately

This was one of my complaints in my letter to the BBC! I feel validated

THat video of Helen and Joanna Belcher is interesting.
Joanna looks utterly on edge the whole time.

I don’t think the bbc should permit contributions from people who say they feel too vulnerable to debate issues. They are not children. Belcher is a public figure who wants to come o to my changing room with their intact male body but they feel too vulnerable to exchange words with an actual woman. Fucking hell. The brass neck is just unreal.

And it is a shame this was radio. The eyes do not deceive when it comes to the actual vulnerability of Belcher.

As a founder of Trans Media Watch HB will be well aware of how to present to the media, and I think HB has chosen to present as a vulnerable victim. HB believed people would be more sympathetic if they pretended to be too vulnerable to debate. It's about the sympathy not the facts.

Has WH been played or were they complicit?

Sorry to keep going on about this, but...they have one job. Discuss the issues that concern women. But they have been spectacularly quiet on women's rights in respect to Trans rights.

They have not dealt with the JKR abuse on twitter and elsewhere. They HAVE said there were pile-ons, but in such a way as to suggest women were the pilers-on??? Did anyone else get that?

WH have been useless. I’m pretty sure GJ is GC but she’s terrified. The BBC have been captured and have betrayed us all. I will never forgive them.

Sorry GJ was supposed to be JG

As a founder of Trans Media Watch HB will be well aware of how to present to the media, and I think HB has chosen to present as a vulnerable victim. HB believed people would be more sympathetic if they pretended to be too vulnerable to debate. It's about the sympathy not the facts.

January 2018 TedTalk in which Belcher describes how Trans Media Watch became so effective.

'Changing Media'
www.ted.com/talks/helen_belcher_changing_media

What I want to know is, who told HB that they could use the ladies room? They are male FFS with no GRC, male genitalia & easily identified as male. I have read that in the old days, transexuals were told although they could have surgery & take hormones they would not actually become the other sex-when did this change?

Do you think it's possible that HB said they were going to debate when they were booked and then "changed their mind" at the last minute because of feeling so vulnerable, when it was too late to get anyone else? Though even in that case Woman's Hour should just have said "OK then, we'll just talk to Joan Smith for half an hour instead, them's the rules". I don't recall this terror of debating with women happening on any other subject... ever.

@PigeonToe

Do you think it's possible that HB said they were going to debate when they were booked and then "changed their mind" at the last minute because of feeling so vulnerable, when it was too late to get anyone else? Though even in that case Woman's Hour should just have said "OK then, we'll just talk to Joan Smith for half an hour instead, them's the rules". I don't recall this terror of debating with women happening on any other subject... ever.

No, it is like they did with Sex and Gender in November 2018. The interview is recorded separately before the programme.

Bex Stinson explains why they prefer it this way in this episode:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00017sd

Interesting that Companies House did not question Helen's name change
but then they have the disclaimer now that they do not check anything !!

I remember that, but I guess I hoped that Woman's Hour had grown a pair (for want of a better phrase) since then. Evidently not

I know. I keep hoping they will do a whole programme explaining the interaction of the GRA and the EA and the implications for women, and what rights they actually do have in all of this.

@Melroses

I know. I keep hoping they will do a whole programme explaining the interaction of the GRA and the EA and the implications for women, and what rights they actually do have in all of this.

Write to them. Suggest this!

on the case

I've been expecting Jenni Murray to break cover & talk about what's been going on with the editorial team for a long time.

Me too.
I thought WH would be on the case after their coverage of the WPUK meeting in London, but they have been absolutely pathetic.

Yeah, what IS going on with Jenni Murray?

Does someone at the BBC have naked pictures of her doing Donald Trump or something?

I don’t think the bbc should permit contributions from people who say they feel too vulnerable to debate issues. They are not children.

I will never forgive BBC for cancelling Nic Williams of Fair Play for Women because McKinnon refused to be on the same programme as her.

@TorkTorkBam

Yeah, what IS going on with Jenni Murray?

Does someone at the BBC have naked pictures of her doing Donald Trump or something?

Maybe she has other stuff going on in her life like an ailing relative or health issues which mean she doesn’t gave the emotional energy to provide supply for wailing narc banshees on Twitter and the like. She’s done enough in starting the ball rolling. We’ll get through this by each doing what we can, when we can. There are enough of us to pick up the baton and keep running.

True. She seems like the type to come out fighting. Still, she's done a lot bloody more than me.

HB believed people would be more sympathetic if they pretended to be too vulnerable to debate.

From R4 listeners? A generally older educated demographic? I thought it made Belcher sound ridiculous. This person wanted to be an MP, people like Edwina Currie and Ann Widdecombe would make mincemeat of such feebleness.

@HipTightOnions

Why is the first argument “How will this be policed?” = “How are you going to stop me then?”

How about you taking some responsibility for doing what you’ve been asked?

I wish this was challenged with a question about whether the person posing this thought many transwomen would break the law to ignore women’s boundaries and trespass on space set aside to protect women as a sex.