Woman's Hour - 16 June - scrapping the proposed GRA amendments

[nauticant]

Just announced that this will be a topic for discussion tomorrow. It will be interesting whether, following a shift in people being more allowed to discuss this, and it being clear how this triggers violent misogyny, whether WH will realise that giving a fair hearing to the gender critical view is essential.

The response to 'How will this be policed?' should be 'Why do you think it needs to be policed?'

Yes. I’ll add my voice to the chorus. We need to challenge the question about how it will be policed, or the more aggressive ‘are you going to check genitals’ every time it raises its ugly male head.

Personal failure to understand boundaries is never a good argument for anything.
"How are you going to police me" - err, has Belcher given any thought to why this debate is finally happening? This is women saying no. That should be enough, surely?

Slight aside - but anyone in any doubt as to whether JG is a feminist - just needs to regularly listen to the podcast Fortunately!

There’s a lot of fun to be had ‘reading between the lines’ there on that podcast!
I’ve heard JG say a few times that Radio 4 is a ‘producer’s network’ whereas Radio 5 Live was/is a ‘broadcaster’s network’.

@R0wantrees - thanks for posting the JM article - was good to read - a real tour de force in hindsight.

Final thought - JG has already ‘blotted her BBC copy book’ re Equal Pay!

She’s done enough in starting the ball rolling. We’ll get through this by each doing what we can, when we can. There are enough of us to pick up the baton and keep running.

What a great post.

@donquixotedelamancha

She’s done enough in starting the ball rolling. We’ll get through this by each doing what we can, when we can. There are enough of us to pick up the baton and keep running.

What a great post.

Yes.

Woman's Hour is one of the bravest, most humane programmes on radio, so why has it flinched from trans issues?

" ... Woman’s Hour unflinchingly confronts subjects such as violence, complex medical and social issues, racism, pornography and prostitution, alongside interviews with smart women and musings on how to cook the perfect corned beef hash. It’s one of the bravest and most humane programmes on radio – most of the time. How bizarre, then, that we seem to have found the one topic that Woman’s Hour is afraid of: being a woman."
www.telegraph.co.uk/radio/what-to-listen-to/has-womans-hour-flinched-trans-issues/

Just listening now. Christ Belcher is madder than usual.

Apparently she was never particularly bothered to achieve self-ID and all she wants is for Trans people to be left in peace.

She seems to think the government are introducing genital inspections for access toilets.

Joan is fab.

I don’t think the bbc should permit contributions from people who say they feel too vulnerable to debate issues. They are not children. Belcher is a public figure who wants to come o to my changing room with their intact male body but they feel too vulnerable to exchange words with an actual woman. Fucking hell. The brass neck is just unreal.

Exactly right.
Otherwise it’s not actually journalism. Anyone who can’t handle questions can always be a case study. Then only those who will engage in good faith to argue their position can be in the substantive debate section of the programme.

I wonder if they'll read out any more emails or mention it at all on the programme today, or if they'll just act like it's job done and move on. I'm guessing the latter.

Helen Belcher article, '51 Years Since the Stonewall Riots'

June 11, 2020 4:03 PM
Originally published by UK Liberal Democrats
(extract)

"To this day, the Stonewall riots are widely considered to be one of the most important events leading to the gay liberation movement and the modern fight for LGBT+ rights.

On the morning of June 28 1969, police raided an underground gay bar in New York city called Stonewall Inn. The raid wasn't unusual but that morning the response was.

This time, as the police got violent, the people in the Stonewall Inn fought back.

Marsha P. Johnson, a black trans woman, threw the first brick. Stormé DeLarverie, a black lesbian woman, threw the first punch. And so began the Stonewall riots.

To this day, the Stonewall riots are widely considered to be one of the most important events leading to the gay liberation movement and the modern fight for LGBT+ rights." (continues)

helenbelcher.uk/en/article/2020/1363884/51-years-since-the-stonewall-riots

This is not true & an appropriation of gay & lesbian history by TRAs.
Martha Johnson described himself as a gay man, a drag queen & a transvestite
The Liberal Democrats disrespect gay & lesbian history by publishing.

Interview with Marsha Johnson & Randy Wicker by Eric Marcus for 'Making Gay History'

(extract)
"Marsha: The way I winded up being at Stonewall that night, I was having a party uptown. And we were all out there and Miss Sylvia Rivera and them were over in the park having a cocktail.

I was uptown and I didn’t get downtown until about two o’clock, because when I got downtown the place was already on fire. And it was a raid already. The riots had already started. And they said the police went in there and set the place on fire." (continues)
makinggayhistory.com/podcast/episode-11-johnson-wicker/

Important LGB Alliance interviews with Martha Shelley & Fred Sargeant who were both active within the gay rights' movement at the time of Stonewall riot & afterwards in the surge of organising which followed.

'Bev Jackson talks to Martha Shelley about her early lesbian rights activism and LGB rights today.'

'Bev Jackson talks to Fred Sargeant about Stonewall and LGB rights today'

Fred Sargeant tweets twitter.com/FredSargeant

I just found this thread having listened to the segment on catch-up.
JaneG sounded hamstrung, as if she were terrified of offending TRAs. Helen played the victim card in a thoroughly transparent way. I noted how she made sure she said she “sat on the loo” and cried. She did keep going off on personal tangents and didn’t really present any coherent argument. Joan was brilliant, clear, calm and intelligent.
It’s a huge shame the BBC could neither find a TRA willing to debate nor a journalist willing to question. I understand JG’s concerns, she has bills to pay.

Jane Fae explaining to Julie Bindel that TRAs find it too frightening to be interviewed by Dame Jenni Murray of Radio 4 Woman's Hour courtesy of Magdalen Berns:

March 2017
'Transactivist Gets Rekt By Julie Bindel'

Helen played the victim card in a thoroughly transparent way. I noted how she made sure she said she “sat on the loo” and cried. She did keep going off on personal tangents and didn’t really present any coherent argument.

Belcher is 'in role' as a woman. Which means being emotional and tearful, and being unable make any coherent arguments because everyone knows that people with ladybrains are irrational and emotional which makes them unable to present logical, coherent and consistent arguments. Unlike 'real people', i.e. men.

Also, I doubt Belcher has any coherent arguments to make, because genderism is all based on feelz and denial of material reality.

Belcher is 'in role' as a woman. Which means being emotional and tearful, and being unable make any coherent arguments because everyone knows that people with ladybrains are irrational and emotional which makes them unable to present logical, coherent and consistent arguments

Although like many late 'transitioning' husbands, it is Helen Belcher's wife who is acknowledged as holding the family together.

Extracts from the interview below also demonstrate that Belcher was committed to remove the spousal exit clause from the GRA Bill before it was passed.

'Heroines of my Life'
"a blog about the [trans] women that are [the author's] everyday inspirations"

"Monika: For many years you have been a staunch advocate of trans rights…
Helen: I guess I’ve been campaigning in one way or another since 2003 when I realized that transition was a possibility for me. My first letters to my MP were on the Gender Recognition Bill; particularly the horrible situation it left trans people in who were married, like me. I really started to get stuck in to advocacy around 2008.

"Monika: What was the hardest thing about your coming out?
Helen: Telling my wife. We were small group leaders in an evangelical church at the time, and I believed that my whole world would fall apart if I was ever honest with her – I was sure I’d lose my wife, my family, my home, my job and my friends. However, I realized that I needed to explain what was going on. It was the scariest conversation I’ve ever had with anyone. I’m incredibly proud of my wife that she managed to hold the marriage and family together. And we came out the other side with comparatively few losses.

Monika: Are you active in politics? Do you participate in any lobbying campaigns? Do you think transgender women can make a difference in politics?
Helen: Again, I’d broaden out the discussion from just trans women, and it depends how you define “politics”. I’m active in that I’m trying to work with politicians to understand the impact on trans and intersex people of legislation under discussion, and campaigning to try to change it where necessary.
During some stages of the same sex marriage act, I was in Westminster talking with people, including government ministers, two or three times a week. And I’ve been part of the group keeping awareness of the “spousal veto” alive. But I’m not part of any political party. I find party politics too tribal for my liking. And, despite being told many, many times that I should stand for parliament, I have absolutely no plans to do so.

Monika: Are you working on any new projects now?
Helen: Currently my company is keeping me very busy which does limit the time available for other work. Trans Media Watch has just released a guide for media professionals on non-binary issues, and we have an outstanding project with Channel 4 on trans people and comedy. I’d like to get a series of primer documents for politicians prepared by the end of the year, allied with getting more exposure for the Trans Manifesto a few months before our General Election in 2015."

.com/2014/09/interview-with-helen-belcher.html

Today's Woman's Hour:
coming up: raising a gender neutral child
later on: the difficulties of diagnosing autism in girls and women

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l0r5

It's like some on the programme is doing a very big, slow, and obvious wink.

The talk is about biology, sex, socialisation, and detaching gender stereotypes from sex. No queer mumbo jumbo anywhere. That cheeered me up.

@ChemiseBleu

Slight aside - but anyone in any doubt as to whether JG is a feminist - just needs to regularly listen to the podcast Fortunately!

There’s a lot of fun to be had ‘reading between the lines’ there on that podcast!
I’ve heard JG say a few times that Radio 4 is a ‘producer’s network’ whereas Radio 5 Live was/is a ‘broadcaster’s network’.

@R0wantrees - thanks for posting the JM article - was good to read - a real tour de force in hindsight.

Final thought - JG has already ‘blotted her BBC copy book’ re Equal Pay!

I suspect she’s gender critical as all. She mentioned once on fortunately her daughters call her a bad feminist. I can take a guess why.

I suspect she’s gender critical as all. She mentioned once on fortunately her daughters call her a bad feminist. I can take a guess why.

Yes, it's not difficult to imagine!