Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

DS is 15 and thinks it’s a load of nonsense. He knows enough to challenge where safe and that there are some pressure dodgy people/bullies pushing agendas for their own reasons.

He is a good critical thinker.

The old quote is that 'education is the antidote to prejudice.' I was privileged to have a very multicultural upbringing. It helped me in adult life, be open to understanding the needs of others with life experiences different from mine, and led me to a career where I help organisations and individuals deal with such conflicts every day

"I’d just like to thank Robin for being so extremely clear here."

Indeed. I'd also like to note that no amount of multiculturalist experience, or education will ever give Robin the information required to understand what it's like to be a woman.

It's not only not possible, it appears to be something that Robin actually has no real interest in.

Strangerthantruth

That's a very interesting thread. And it's right, the price of tulips has stopped rising.

It's not only not possible, it appears to be something that Robin actually has no real interest in.

I'd go further than that. I'd say it's something Robin needs to actively resist in order to maintain Robin's current beliefs about Robinself and about how everything relating to "gender" works. Which explains a lot about how interactions between women and activisty transwomen tend to go.

That LGB twitter feed is spot on. It's an uncomfortable truth, but the truth must be protected for the sake of lesbians, gay men, women and children. I must say, the sheer scale of the change of language expected by everyone around the issue trans rights is astounding. I never thought in 2020 I would be fighting to protect the dictionary definition of women, and being called hateful for saying it, or wearing it on a T shirt.

RobinMoraWhite - for you to read the thread of responses to your posts, particularly wellbehavedwoman's very eloquent post this morning, and then say "this is not the place for respectful debate" is simply astonishing.

What would respectful debate look like to you then, Robin? Because if a woman putting forward her view, based on her experience of being born and raised female, in a polite, calm and reasoned way, isn't "respectful debate" - then how are you going to hear the voices of women in the "respectful debate"? You are admitting that women's views and experiences are not welcome, and effectively condoning the silencing of women.

Just caught up with this thread finally. Wow. Just wow. A thread about how potential leader of the Opposition Lisa Nandy sees no problem with putting rapists in prisons with women turned into an “all about me” thread. Is there anything people won’t do to advance their own personal cause?

It helped me in adult life, be open to understanding the needs of others

So let's see a bit of that understanding for women @RobinMoiraWhite

I would love an answer to theflushedzebra's extremely respectful question, please.

I wouldn't engage a barrister who can't even defend their own position.

Has Robin actually answered the questions put to Robin?

No

I asked Robin - on another thread - if the privacy, dignity of women and girls is and extreme position and should be up for debate. NO ANSWER.

I expect the reason for this is that for Robin, the privacy, dignity and safety of women and girls is entirely up for debate and expendable.

Robin - If you have answered and I have’t noticed - please show me you responses.

Well, the problem for Robin is that Robin is coming at this from the sane perspective as RLB, which is with a loaded dice. I believe RLB effectively said that women are allowed to discuss the need for single sex provision, and the exclusions which apply to transwomen, as long as they first acknowledge that no exclusions should apply. So Robin comes here for 'respectful debate', the threshold of which is we must accept TWAW, and if we do not, absolutely nothing we say is respectful.

Quite something, really. Accept your opponent's conclusions at the beginning, or your participation is forbidden.

I know White isn't all that interesting, I must admit to having skipped a lot of this thread. But did White actually give an opinion on Nandy's views? Or did White only come on here to derail?

I think the most fitting response to Robin at this point would be to ignore Robin completely and go back to discussing Lisa Nandy.

Re Ireland
July 2019 Dulin Live
'Sex offender undergoing male to female transition being held in Dublin women's jail
It is feared she would be the target of attacks in a male prison'
(extract)
"A sex offender who is currently undergoing a male to female transition has been given a protection detail after being remanded to the Dochas Centre Women's prison in Dublin.

The prisoner was remanded in the women's prison in Mountjoy on Monday after being convicted of 10 counts of sexual assault and one count of cruelty against a child, according to an exclusive in the Sunday World.

Sources confirmed to the newspaper that the prisoner is being given protection status by the Irish Prison Service and is being accompanied by two officers at all times when roaming the common areas of the prison.

It is understood to be the first time in the prison's history that a person registered as a male on their birth cert has been remanded to the Dochas centre Women's Prison." (continues)

www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/sex-offender-undergoing-male-female-16623261?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I love you lot.

Special mentions for Kitten, Fox and Woman ❤️❤️❤️

I can’t remember which Mumsnetter taught me the phrase ‘forced teaming’ (Lang? Datun? Barracker?) but every time a male poster tells me they belong in the same spaces as me, behind the same doors as me, in crisis services founded for me and my daughters, that’s the phrase that immediately springs to mind.

From the wiki page for the book, ‘The Gift of Fear’ by Gavin de Becker

PINS (Pre-Incident Indicators)

Forced Teaming. This is when a person implies that they have something in common with their chosen victim, acting as if they have a shared predicament when that isn't really true. Speaking in "we" terms is a mark of this, i.e. "We don't need to talk outside... Let's go in."

Charm and Niceness. This is being polite and friendly to a chosen victim in order to manipulate him or her by disarming their mistrust.

Too many details. If a person is lying they will add excessive details to make themselves sound more credible to their chosen victim

Typecasting. An insult is used to get a chosen victim who would otherwise ignore one to engage in conversation to counteract the insult. For example: "Oh, I bet you're too stuck-up to talk to a guy like me." The tendency is for the chosen victim to want to prove the insult untrue.

Loan Sharking. Giving unsolicited help to the chosen victim and anticipating they'll feel obliged to extend some reciprocal openness in return.

The Unsolicited Promise. A promise to do (or not do) something when no such promise is asked for; this usually means that such a promise will be broken. For example: an unsolicited, "I promise I'll leave you alone after this," usually means the chosen victim will not be left alone. Similarly, an unsolicited "I promise I won't hurt you" usually means the person intends to hurt their chosen victim.

Discounting the Word "No". Refusing to accept rejection.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear

I think merail is more accurate

Regarding Nandy, there's was definitely some attempt to dig herself out of a hole to me, lots of quibbling, but it does illustrate that she didn't actually understand what she was saying. To be fair, I'm not convinced she actually does now and it's not a politicians reaction to voters.

Indeed. Robin thinks respectful debate = agreeing with Robin + humbly thanking Robin for Robin's superior understanding of being a woman.

And since the odds of that aren't great...

Something that hasn't been discussed is another of Julia's questions to Lisa Nandy, namely, should Christopher Worton's crime of rape be recorded under the women's crime statistics?

My answer to that is also a resounding NO. The thought of the very male crime of rape, in this case against a teenage girl, being recorded as perpetrated by a woman, under the women's crime statistics, is so extremely unjust, that I don't know how anyone in their right mind could agree with it.

I tell you what else is madness. If you do a google search of “Lisa Nandy prisons” or “Lisa Nandy rapists” the only news articles that come up are the Times, the Daily Mail and Spiked. If ever there was an example of how the left wing media, supposedly the champions of vulnerable women, have an ideological problem it’s this. I imagine @jbindel is writing something as we speak, it won’t be published in the Guardian that’s for sure.

Regarding recording of crimes as female, can we clarify the situation on legal documents.

What would be required for the police to list the crime as by a woman?

Passport/birth certificate stating female?

If so, is it possible to change either of those without a GRC?

The question as always is whether left wing media is actively colluding in suppressing information or just frozen in terror at the thought that if the publish anything they might become the next target.

Its not just recording though, it's the whole prosecution and court case has to be under the pretence that the rapist is a women. That's the worst bit.

Robin Moira White wants to use the ladies toilet because White believes that's the appropriate door for who they are
Karen White wants to be in a women's prison because White believe's that's the appropriate door for who they are.

Their claims are identical, there is no difference between the White's in their demands.

Much more important to report that "Labour leadership candidate Lisa Nandy would abolish monarchy"

www.independent.co.uk/

Thing is, Robin, a lot of us (myself included) didnt have much of a problem with the 'respectful' transpeople of years back. You were so few, and just went about your business with a minimum of fuss. But then came the chancers, fetishists and misogynists who saw a chance to benefit themselves at the expense of women.

Boundaries were pushed and women budged up to be nice, where was the harm? But, there came a point for every woman where they did not want to budge up any more. They warned that this new defining of women would cause harm, including to the 'trutrans' that just wanted to go about their business quietly and respectfully.

What did you do, Robin, when women were trying to speak up for you, to protect you? Did you stand with them and say, actually theres more to being trans than saying you are? Or did you do what you are doing on this thread?

Women tried Robin, they tried to speak up to protect their rights and dignities. They tried to speak up for the rights of the genuine transwomen but were abused for doing so.

You didnt speak up against the trans lobby whilst brave women were losing so much so why the fuck should women give a shit about your feelz now?

But the point is, are we talking about people who have a GRC, or is there de facto self-id in operation?