Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

thank you wellbehavedwoman. Thank you.

Excellent wellbehavedwoman. That sums up my thoughts perfectly.

Well said that wellbehavedwomen

The entire thing is just fckn stupid and a total waste of time and resources. There are so many important issues to be discussed, and yet they waste time on this farce. Anyone who is trans, but still has their original body parts, should be regarded as such. Sick of this identity shit!!

A propos self-ID in Ireland causing no problems: As I recall, the legislation was also snuck through the back door - no referendum or anything. Women weren't given a say.

^ this.
The Irish people I've mentioned it to have absolutely no idea it has happened, and what it means. In most of Ireland it's the way the UK was 5 - 10 years ago, before "trans" became a talking point. The way most of the world is.

I live in a rural area of Ireland and the reason there are no problems here is that a) people don't know b) would be horrified (at women sharing spaces with men) if they did know and c) transwomen in this area are rare -- I've never seen one.

I go to a leisure centre where there are separate changing areas for men and women. I can just imagine what would happen if a male-bodied self-IDed person decided to change along with us middle-aged ladies as we strip down and chatter with each other.

I doubt if any one of these ladies have even heard of the issue of self-ID, much less agree with it. I only know because of my background in media and women's rights, and because I moved here recently.

If there are "no problems" it's not because Ireland is so woke. It's because most of Ireland is still sane and still unaffected, and this legislation has been quietly snuck in without them knowing what it is and of the consequences.

Well said wellbehavedwoman! 👏 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

I would add that nothing well had said impedes on the rights of any males or any transwomen. Or the existence. At all.

Rights and human rights gets totted out a a counter argument, and is a pure falsehood. Third spaces are needed. Not up to women to campaign for them. I'm sure many would as ally's, but it's not our responsibility

wellbehavedwomen well said! This is exactly it. You have to have grown up in a woman's body in order to know what it feels like.

The old quote is that 'education is the antidote to prejudice.' I was privileged to have a very multicultural upbringing. It helped me in adult life, be open to understanding the needs of others with life experiences different from mine, and led me to a career where I help organisations and individuals deal with such conflicts every day

I’d just like to thank Robin for being so extremely clear here.

You obviously feel that women here have arrived at our opinions through a lack of education, and that if only we paid proper attention, we could be led to enlightenment. Let’s examine the assumptions that might underpin that thinking, given that you have no idea whatsoever about the actual qualifications and expertise of women you’re talking to here.

1. We are on Mumsnet, so women here are just mums chattering. (Reality: many women here are not mothers, and even if we were, the assumption that your brain falls out with the baby is extremely sexist. Women educate other women, and a lot of that happens when women become mothers. We’re not just here because we’ve got a bit of time on our hands now that we’ve figured out how to get our whites really sparkling white.)

1. We have no expertise in matters of gender (reality: women live every day with matters relating to gender, and they are too many to list here, but let’s start with VAWG, maternity and women’s health- all gendered issues that women have to deal with and understand. Many women here are feminists of many decades of activism. We are experts).

1. Women don’t have any experience of trans issues, so should not opine on matters we know nothing of (reality: we are actually talking about women’s issues here because all of this impacts us. Also, if women can’t speak for trans, why on earth do male sexed trans people presume to speak for us?!)

1. (Building on point one) women here don’t have any qualifications or expertise necessary to have our opinions taken seriously (reality: it doesn’t need expertise to know on a visceral level that putting male bodied rapists in women’s prisons is a horrific, woman hating, dangerous idea. And if it did take expertise, then women on here are well equipped to provide that, being journalists, scientists, lawyers, child protection experts, governors, teachers, lecturers.... why would you assume that there are not women here who have life experiences and qualifications well in excess of yours? )

TLDR: your assumption that women here are silly and can be educated out of our knowledge is wrong and rooted in misogyny. I know you won’t take this on board, Robin, but don’t worry - I’m really not writing it for you

There is certainly some sense being spoken in the party. Or have the candidates called out LGBLabour as a hate group and I have missed it?

What wellbehavedwomen said. Every single eloquent, rational word of it.

Robin, please try to really read and internally digest that, rather than coming back with a flip comment and a gotcha.

Even if you don't currently give a flying fuck about women or their needs (and that is v much how you're coming across) it will help you understand the issues.

you genuinely don't understand quite how much you genuinely don't understand

The Dunning Kruger effect in action (people who have a limited experience of a thing have impaired judgement when it comes to assessing their expertise in that thing. The less you know, the less you’re able to accurately assess your level of knowledge).

I was privileged to have a very multicultural upbringing.

Would you care to elaborate? Are you of African-Caribbean descent? Or maybe Hindu, or maybe from an indigenous American Indian tribe? Perhaps you grew up among the Bangladeshis of Brick Lane, or among the Jamaicans of Brixton, and your mother took in the neighborhood laundry? Or are you an immigrant from Syria?

Tell us, which is it? I'm very interested.

The level of narcissism being displayed in our telling off is now at 11.

White's tone deafness and style of language reminds me so much of Whittle's similarly-derided foray onto these boards

Many of us have read the Transwidows threads on Mumsnet, (highly recommended for any lurkers) where numerous former wives have ensured we are fully acquainted with the actions and motivations of married, late-transitioning males.

Great thread. twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1229539824031485952

Thank you for all the comments. Very useful. Entirely clear that Mumsnet isn’t the place for a respectful debate about difficult issues.

I feel like we've now passed the tipping point where the public is going "wait, this is all bollocks, isn't it?" but those stuck in the cult either haven't noticed yet or have their fingers in their ears screaming "I believe in fairies!"

Robin, please try to really read and internally digest that, rather than coming back with a flip comment and a gotcha.

Yep, that went as predicted, didn't it?

Robin, You've been given a respectful debate. You've been told what the issues we are and why women have a problem with them but you you continue to roundly ignore them because they don't fall into line with what you want to hear.

I think we’re coming at the word “respectful” from some wildly different angles, here.

It must be one of those spectrummy words that stretches in meaning from “didn’t actually name call” to “total capitulation to my superior knowledge”.

Still got no idea if you think rapists should be accommodated in women’s prisons if they care to choose to be so, Robin.

What's that I've just read? Flounce #4? #5?

I'd have expected better from a barrister, but I can't say I'm surprised.

If it wasn't for women like those on Mumsnet very few of the difficult issues regarding transgender ideology would have been raised.

I am sure the Labour Party would wish we would just shut up and accept TWAW, but we're actually more concerned about protecting women and children.

Don't worry, Robin will be back. Narcissistic supply and all.

Robin drops by now and again to top up on righteous indignation and to be able to claim the bigots won't listen to reason. It goes the same way every time .

I feel like we've now passed the tipping point where the public is going "wait, this is all bollocks, isn't it?" but those stuck in the cult

I feel we are making some progress,but speaking to students and school children they are very much of the opinion that feels trump biology and that it's actually possible to change sex.

It's an extremely dangerous combination of ideas, many girls will end up on lifetime medication because of it.