Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

The question as always is whether left wing media is actively colluding in suppressing information or just frozen in terror at the thought that if the publish anything they might become the next target

It will be interesting to see if anything is published in the Observer on Sunday in relation to this. I have this vision in my head of all the woke idiots going home on Saturdays, then all the Observer staff come in and say “right, it’s the grown ups’ turn now”. I bet they don’t talk to each other at the Christmas party. Or LOJ’s gang don’t anyway.

Regarding Nandy, there's was definitely some attempt to dig herself out of a hole to me, lots of quibbling, but it does illustrate that she didn't actually understand what she was saying.

When she has spoken about the young transgender person in her constituency, she has come across as though she doesn't understand the difference between the medical, social and legal aspects of 'gender' change.

She talks about the young person 'going through the gender recognition act process' (ie the legal process), but this can't be the case if the young person is under 18, although they might be on a medical pathway. She talks about them being 'bullied and stigmatised', which is nothing to do with either the medical or legal aspect, but is a social issue. The social aspect will not be affected by changes to the GRA or access to medical treatment.

Exactly, Strangerthan - so true.

Afaik, crime stats are currently being recorded on the basis of self ID, and yes, a Judge will direct the witnesses (including the victim) to address the defendant as "she" - I can't think of a much better example of gaslighting and abuse towards a victim of rape than this. The very male crime of rape, by a male, by a male's penis, and then being told you have to refer to your attacker as a female. Because they say so. Brainfuck.

I read somewhere that right wingers see women as entities that belong to individual men whereas left wingers see women as entities belonging to all men.

The Guardian’s utter betrayal of women has been a great sadness to me but is explained by this maxim. The whole thing has helped me become clearer about my feminism and I have withdrawn my trust from the left.

Yes I think the saying is "the right see women as private property and the left see them as public property'

I was not surprised Robin when you mentioned that you were a barrister. I am surprised though that you base your argument on flawed data (or do you not believe that Stonewall is a reputable data source????). But then the tactic being used by this ideology is really about minimizing.

Do you not think a good position to start from is actually an informed position with accurate facts?

I tell you what else is madness. If you do a google search of “Lisa Nandy prisons” or “Lisa Nandy rapists” the only news articles that come up are the Times, the Daily Mail and Spiked. If ever there was an example of how the left wing media, supposedly the champions of vulnerable women, have an ideological problem it’s this.

It just shows that for all their 'we are such feminists' posturing, when it comes to the crunch, when they have to choose between the feelings of men and the safety of women, the left choose men. Men come first for them, women sometimes come in handy to make them look good.

Fuck them.

@theflush

Something that hasn't been discussed is another of Julia's questions to Lisa Nandy, namely, should Christopher Worton's crime of rape be recorded under the women's crime statistics?

This is Orwellian dystopia. Crime statistics are supposed to present the reality of crime - to enable management, provision if services, policing etc.

It is a particularly cruel abuse of power to enable a man to have their male crime to be recorded as done by a women. No consideration of the woman at all.

Natural conclusion - rape victims will be forced in a court of law to describe their male attackers as she.

‘Women rape and murder too/Women are as bad as men’ will filter down and be used against women in places like family court, thus children will be at greater risk if crime statistics are not compiled accurately.

A thread about how potential leader of the Opposition Lisa Nandy sees no problem with putting rapists in prisons with women turned into an “all about me” thread. Is there anything people won’t do to advance their own personal cause?

Telling, isnt it?
The second time this week that the details & impact of violent sexual assaults of two girls age 10 & 12 years old in supermarket toilets by Dolatowski (a male who identifies as a woman) has been ignored on threads.

R M White no doubt believes Dolatowski is one of those "few troublesome trans individuals" having asserted in a recent article that we should deal with "that rare abuse" but not by "removing the rights that make our workplaces & high streets fairer & more diverse"

Furthermore attempts by women to re-establish sex-based Safeguarding to protect girls & vulnerable women are framed by R M White as "so called 'gender critical' feminists. [Who] would have trans rights rolled back or restricted. That's just silly"

(Fivehundred October 2019 pp 79)
indd.adobe.com/view/555ccd58-1fd7-4dae-b545-043723d3e299

Safeguarding Children & Vulnerable Adults is never silly, these are statuatory responsibilities of the state, public services, organisations & citizens.

Maya Angelou, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

I'm surprised that Owen Jones hasn't mentioned this on Twitter. After all, usually he cannot resist an opportunity to have a go at women over this issue, to bleat on about 'anti-trans' bigots. And he has publicly signed the pledge to say that he wants non-believers expelled from the party, it's all a pretty hot topic at the moment and a great opportunity to once again show the world how compassionate and progressive he is.

So why the radio silence on this? Why not use the issue of male rapists in female prisons to show how caring and woke you are Owen? After all, as we are told time and time again, transwomen are women and self id should be law......this is a great way to show just how true that is isn't it Owen?

So why the radio silence on this? Why not use the issue of male rapists in female prisons to show how caring and woke you are Owen? After all, as we are told time and time again, transwomen are women and self id should be law......this is a great way to show just how true that is isn't it Owen?

Yes always such silence when something so outrageous like this happens or when our favourite canadian does something else sick and predatory to show how self ID will pan out . Strange when they doxx block and insult people and who point out what will happen and say it will never happen.

They are all at home waiting for someone brave and stunning to do something brave and stunning so they can stick two fingers up at us all again.

Thank you for all the comments. Very useful. Entirely clear that Mumsnet isn’t the place for a respectful debate about difficult issues.

Well, if you don't bother to listen to anything anyone says...

Passport/birth certificate stating female?

If so, is it possible to change either of those without a GRC?

The sex on a person's passport is changed with letter from a Dr stating that the person is intending to transition their 'gender'. A male person can therefore obtain & travel on a female passport relatively easily & vice versa.

Driving licences can be changed by self id (Man Friday demonstrated this)

Replacing a birth certificate with one stating the person is the opposite sex to the original requires a GRC. The majority of Labour leadership candidates have been uniqivocable that they would push through sex self-id changes to the GRA.

What breaks my heart about the Dolatowski case is thinking about what could have been. How many people saw Dolatowski go into the toilets? Did anyone identify that person as male? Did anyone think they should challenge them but weren’t sure whether they could or should? Did anyone feel unease by his presence but didn’t act? Apparently he was stalking the toilets. This is what this sort of policy leads to: uncertainty about how to act, how to respond. No one can tell which male’s intentions are genuine and which male’s intentions are predatory.

Pictures of Katie Dolatowski show a person who is very, very clearly male.

We know that a lot of women are now afraid to challenge obvious males in women's facilities, because a) they may well be fearful of repercussions from an angry male person, and b) they are afraid of being accused of transphobia.

I have many, many references for this, which I haven't got time to look up now - but there have been many threads on here, and quite a few high profile cases, such as the woman being banned from her gym (in the US) for complaining about a male in the women's changing room.

Lisa Nandy is getting her arse handed to her on a plate about this on her latest Twitter post. Surely a penny is going to have to drop somewhere soon?

The problem they all have though, is that there is no compromise on this. As soon as there is any hint that someone significant might be thinking that actually, transwomen are not women, the whole thing comes crashing down.

I'm finding it fascinating to watch tbh!

Thing is, Robin, a lot of us (myself included) didnt have much of a problem with the 'respectful' transpeople of years back. You were so few, and just went about your business with a minimum of fuss. But then came the chancers, fetishists and misogynists who saw a chance to benefit themselves at the expense of women. Boundaries were pushed and women budged up to be nice, where was the harm? But, there came a point for every woman where they did not want to budge up any more.

Thanks @FemiLANGul. I too used to be so nice and kind and inclusive. I welcomed trans women into public toilets, into changing rooms. But I never ever ever didn’t notice them as trans women. I knew they were there, I just decided to live and let live. What was the harm?

But now I am supposed to pretend that trans women are the same as me in every way, whatever the consequences.

Enough already.

I do not want to pretend. I am a scientist with a firm grip on reality. So I have stopped being kind and started being assertive.

I do not accept trans women in single sex spaces. I will no longer turn a blind eye. I have been pushed too far and I am pushing back. I do not accept any adult XY human in my single sex spaces. Any. Ever. And if I notice them I will ask them to leave - or ask for help to make them leave. And I will fight to give all girls and women the same.

It is a particularly cruel abuse of power to enable a man to have their male crime to be recorded as done by a women. No consideration of the woman at all.

Natural conclusion - rape victims will be forced in a court of law to describe their male attackers as she.

Crimes such as voyeurism, flashing, public masturbation, rape are overwhelmingly part of male-specific sexual offending pattern behaviour.

There is a body of (international) evidence of transwomen retaining male-pattern offending behaviour. Why would police & MoJ want to obscure this or hinder closer analysis? In whose benefit is it?

What breaks my heart about the Dolatowski case is thinking about what could have been. How many people saw Dolatowski go into the toilets? Did anyone identify that person as male? Did anyone think they should challenge them but weren’t sure whether they could or should?

Dolatowski had been in care from a very young age & was being supported by a range of services due to having additional needs. Its extremely likely that support workers/carers were obliged/required to affirm Dolatowski's female gender identity.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3324578-Vunerabilities-of-Looked-After-Children-Social-Work-CP-restricted-by-affirmation-requirement-Trans-Youth-in-Care-Toolkit

Lisa Nandy is getting her arse handed to her on a plate about this on her latest Twitter post. Surely a penny is going to have to drop somewhere soon?

No doubt all her social media comms are currently handled by her youngest, most wokeist campaign team members.

Remember how the NSPCC Twitter team called us all homophobes for pointing out that an employee in fetish gear was wanking in the staff toilets? Then the grown ups quietly fired him in the background?
The entire upper echelons of the Labour Party are currently in the ‘call all the critics a ...phobe’ stage.
Let’s hope the grown ups quietly take charge as soon as possible.

Just putting this little video clip down here. Former Prison Governor expresses concern about transwomen in female jails.

From Feb 10th.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-51452489/ex-prison-chief-expresses-concern-about-trans-women-in-female-jails?SThisFB

Entirely clear that Mumsnet isn’t the place for a respectful debate about difficult issues.

In which case I'd cordially suggest that you find another forum!

My colleagues (male) are relatively intelligent political nerds including one active Labour Party member. They were discussing last night's C4 debate and saying Nandy came off best. After Maya F's experience, I am actually scared to refer them to the ill thought out self-ID nonsense that Lisa Nandy has disappointed us with.
There are a few woke colleagues who would probably report me for even saying it.
Such is the state of debate.

I was rather shocked this wasn't on the news this morning.

A serious candidate to be Labour leader said she definitely definitely, no question about it believes that rapists should get to choose how their crimes are recorded and furthermore they get to choose to serve their sentences in women's prisons. That's not newsworthy? What the hell?

She and RLB also want members of the LGB Alliance to be expelled from Labour! How is this homophobia not a headline! If an old school Tory said it there'd be outrage.

Oi! BBC News! Come on. Do your job. Hold them to account. Challenge them.

Justin Webb was doing a decent job of quizzing them. Let's have more. This is major stuff. It should be in the public sphere because our journalists get it out of them on major news programmes. Not because Julia makes an amateur video and posts it on YouTube. Nandy wasn't hiding her batshit crazy beliefs, just nobody asked her publicly and clearly before. Come on media! Wake up!