Vice: how an online forum for moms became a toxic hotbed of transphobia

[NotTerfNorCis]

broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3mn9k/mumsnet-uk-mom-forum-terf-transphobia-feminism

Thought people might be interested in this article. One thing that strikes me is the 'reducing women to their biology' argument. Don't transwomen 'know' they're not male because their body feels wrong? Then it is about biology isn't it? Otherwise why do they think they're female?

The only thing that should go in porridge is honey.

I’ve been known to put salt and sugar in my porridge at the same time.

It’s quite fascinating seeing the misogyny in the criticism of MN posters - how dare mums have a political opinions!

Aww how did I miss this thread!

I’ve been chucking that out there some knob has done a search for “toxic hotbed vice moms” and been sorely disappointed with the returned results.

So that's how you found us?

I'm afraid BingleWoof will be joining us on the hotbed. He doesn't wriggle too much but please don't give him any cheese or you won't like the smell. It's a level of toxicity too far.

Peanut butter in porridge??

Joss should have a long think about what they've done

Yes, the misogyny is so blatant and so huge they can't see it. It's very much as if once you attach the label Mother/Mum/Mummy/Mom to a woman it blots out every other aspect of her personality. Henceforth she lives only through her children and grandchildren. She can legitimately campaign on relatively uncontroversial issues to do with them, but woe betide her if she dares to speak up about anything that the political class has already agreed on and decreed needn't be debated further. This applies even where they've given away our rights without bothering to tell us, let alone ask us if we don't mind.

I see the pic has gone now. Hope Miranda is still here.

In case newcomers to the toxic hotbed of transphobia feminism & women's rights board would like to understand what's going on. Many people have found this thread useful.
seems a shame Eve Livingston didn't have the time to read and find out more.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Any newcomers would also do very well to note that R0wantrees is a one-woman archive and does fantastic work keeping track of discussions here and valuable links elsewhere. for you, R0wan, you are amazing.

YY Bittermints. Toxic hotbed, radicalisation portal. Silly uppity mummies.

I am pondering the random mention of Gab magazine at the end.."was criticized for hosting antisemitic content and allegedly allowing white nationalist groups to use their platform. "

Is she trying to suggest that there is some parallel between "white middle class mums" and "white nationalist groups"?

FWIW my observation is that the demographics, and style of posting, varies by board. The (very wonderful) elderly parents board, say, has lots of non mums, and plenty who ask questions about money. I suspect AIBU has a few mischeavous teenagers staying up past their bedtimes.

And should we worry about people who google Weetabix and bananas?

I see the pic has gone now. Hope Miranda is still here.

Miranda was discussing Joss Prior's apparent hatred of women.

I've cropped the deleted screenshot as the quote & point is relevent.
I believe it refers to Joss Prior 's attempt to blame Maria Maclachlan for being assaulted by T. Woolf at Speaker's Corner last year.
Woolf was found guilty.

Miranda Yardley's article published by AfterEllen this week:
'Girl Dick, the Cotton Ceiling and the Cultural War on Lesbians, Girls and Women'
(extract)
"There should be a place where bad ideas go to die, and the first idea to be shipped there on a first class, one-way express journey to abyssal depth should be what is colloquially known as “the Cotton Ceiling.” The Cotton Ceiling, coined by a male “lesbian” pornographer, refers to the barrier trans women face when denied access to sex with lesbians.

Surprised? Keep reading.

You are about to be astonished at the appropriation of the lives, fears and culture of women by today’s most fashionable form of homophobia. This is itself an attack on the sexual and bodily autonomy of all women and especially lesbians, and is not just rubber-stamped by the organizations who are supposed to defend the rights of lesbians and gay men, it is positively celebrated so much that the point behind these organizations is no longer the interests of lesbians and gay men. The point is now the bank account.

It’s a measure of how completely topsy-turvy the transgender debate has made LGB&T politics and organizations that the person writing this piece is a transsexual. I am, however, uniquely placed to be able to write this piece as I am a man who ‘lives as a woman,’ whatever that may mean, and can see exactly how too many transgender rights activists think. And as anyone who has ever participated in social media knows, any criticism of transgender ideology, which we all of us have the right to accept, critique and reject, any deviation from the brain-sucking mantra of ‘trans women are women,’ is met with reports to our employers, threats of physical violence, and threats of rape and death. This is a viciously toxic form of men’s sexual rights activism that has managed to rebrand and reframe itself as a civil rights movement." (continues)

www.afterellen.com/general-news/567823-girl-dick-the-cotton-ceiling-and-the-cultural-war-on-lesbians-girls-and-women

To be fair to Eve Livingston, it would be very dangerous to her career were she to actually try and investigate why all these women (who encompass a far broader range of age, class, ethnicity and career than it suits her to imagine) disagree with her. She would risk understanding it from our point of view view. I'm not sure she gets that a lot of us have already been where she is at. Especially those of us who used to only read the Guardian

R0wan, you are amazing. Thank you!

Judging by Eve's Twitter profile pic, she looks like she's just taken her GCSEs and not old enough to drive yet. Look love, you've not got a clue. When I was your age I used to wonder what all these older women were going on about with feminism. You will learn, and it will be the hard way no doubt.

Aww how did I miss this thread!

Come & join us in the hotbed.

"The rhetoric Prior refers to here is, she explains, “essentially second wave—and what might now be known as ‘white feminism.’ It reminds me of the kind of puritanical beliefs that underpin some strains of homophobia and it is completely hostile for intersectional feminists or anyone who doesn’t fit a white, cis, feminist ideal.”

How do people know who is white on Mumnset?

Re Joss Prior's narrative of T. Woolf's assault of a woman at Speaker's Corner,

Maria MacLachlan's account of the trial: www.peaktrans.org/blog-the-ostensible-trial-of-tara-wolf-part-1/

Helen Lewis NewStatesman 20 APRIL 2018
'The madness of our gender debate, where feminists defend slapping a 60-year-old woman
It seems swivel-eyed to condemn rhetorical “attacks” and blithely ignore physical ones.'
(extract)
"You would have thought that a feminist getting punched in the face would be reasonably large news – particularly if her attacker had boasted online earlier of wanting to “fuck up” some feminists, comparing them to fascists. But the conviction of the person who attacked 60-year-old Maria MacLachlan at Speakers’ Corner last year didn’t trouble the pages of the Guardian, where I would normally expect to hear about something that veers close to being a hate crime, or the LGBT website Pink News. Why? A clue comes in the fact that MacLachlan was slapped by a 26-year-old transgender woman called Tara Wolf, who explained to the court that MacLachlan was a “TERF” – a term commonly used to stand for “trans exclusionary radical feminist”, ie one who doesn’t believe that trans women are “real” women, but which Wolf defined as a “trans exterminatory radical feminist”.

The implication was that MacLachlan, now 61, wants all transgender people dead – something that seems absolutely barking until you realise this is quite a common accusation in activist spaces. The feminist group Sisters Uncut, which has done great work protesting the closure of domestic violence services, somehow looked at the case and decided that Wolf was the real victim. It used a hashtag – #freetheshewolf – and called for a protest outside Hendon Magistrates’ Court, asking for support for a “trans woman targeted… and harassed by TERFs, transmisogynists and cops”, adding: “Attacks on trans lives will not be tolerated.” (continues)

"The Wolf affair also demonstrates another alarming phenomenon: the left getting high on its own supply of self-righteousness. “Some feminists have a different conception of gender to me” gets smudged into “some feminists talk about me in ways that I find offensive” and on to “some feminists are basically Hitler, trying to eradicate people like me”.

Once you reach the last statement, then of course you can slap a woman and still think of yourself as a good person. She wants to kill you; a mere punch is self-defence. (I’m not exaggerating about the language. The Edinburgh branch of Action for Trans Health tweeted the day after the attack: “Punching TERFs is the same as punching Nazis. Fascism must be smashed with the greatest violence to ensure our collective liberation from it.”) continues

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/04/madness-our-gender-debate-where-feminists-defend-slapping-60-year-old

Is she trying to suggest that there is some parallel between "white middle class mums" and "white nationalist groups"?

It's another clumsy "dog whistle"

The feminist group Sisters Uncut, which has done great work protesting the closure of domestic violence services

SistersUncut might have been feminist at one point. Nowadays they're a bunch of women-hating thugs.

Helen seems to have missed that Sisters Uncut were heavily involved in the original incident at Speakers Corner, they didn't just lend their support to Wolf afterwards.

SistersUncut might have been feminist at one point. Nowadays they're a bunch of women-hating thugs.

They are involved with the 'Terfwar Tour' I think?
The accounts from the recent Sheffield and Leeds meetings are very concerning:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3429911-Jean-Hatchet-attends-T-War-tour