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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transgender Documentary on BBC2 Thursday 2100 "Transgender Kids: Who Knows best?"

860 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/01/2017 08:09

Looks like an interesting watch, that does not just accept the trans children or they will kill themselves rhetoric. I just hope the BBC actually do show it and aren't bullied into not showing it.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088kxbw

The blurb:

Around the world there has been a huge increase in the number of children being referred to gender clinics - boys saying they want to be girls and vice versa. Increasingly, parents are encouraged to adopt a 'gender affirmative' approach - fully supporting their children's change of identity. But is this approach right?

In this challenging documentary, BBC Two's award-winning This World strand travels to Canada, where one of the world's leading experts in childhood gender dysphoria (the condition where children are unhappy with their biological sex) lost his job for challenging the new orthodoxy that children know best. Speaking on TV for the first time since his clinic was closed, Dr Kenneth Zucker believes he is a victim of the politicisation of transgender issues. The film presents evidence that most children with gender dysphoria eventually overcome the feelings without transitioning and questions the science behind the idea that a boy could somehow be born with a 'female brain' or vice versa. It also features 'Lou' - who was born female and had a double mastectomy as part of transitioning to a man. She now says it is a decision that 'haunts' her and feels that her gender dysphoria should have been treated as a mental health issue.

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/01/2017 10:18

Just checked and guardian article similar (though not identical) to this piece in Gay Star News

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.gaystarnews.com/article/fears-bbc-documentary-trans-children-will-blatant-transphobic-propaganda/amp/?client=ms-android-google

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Cherylene · 12/01/2017 10:28

I am not involved in the transgender debate, but I watched the Newsnight article, and what Blanchard said at the end (just before he was cut off) sums it up for me.

Seachangeshell · 12/01/2017 10:31

Great- thanks so much for posting that newsnight clip. I'm looking forward to seeing the doc tonight.

Cherylene · 12/01/2017 10:38

All to be - I have seen that sort of thing happen in the HRT debate in the Telegraph and the Mail. It happened before the new NICE guidelines were issued - the telegraph did an article about the person who did the million women study which was very anti, then the next day when the guidelines were issued, it was a complete about face. I think they are picking up press releases (which will be flying around), so if things change when the programme is shown, they can go with it, and point to that to show they have been 'impartial'.

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 12/01/2017 18:43

I've just tried to watch the Newsnight episode on iPlayer and there's a message saying it's not available at the mo. I wonder if there have been libel issues/legal problems in light of what PP have said above. I'll try through our cable catch-up later.

Cherylene · 12/01/2017 19:12

hmm - perfectly normal newsnight stuff to me - both had plenty to say and said it - hopefully it will be back on later, after the programme.

Beachcomber · 12/01/2017 19:34

That article is awful. From what I've read it is clear that Zucker was fired for political reasons not for medical ethics.

It is quite weird reading some of the pro transing children views - they blandly talk about supporting children and respecting their struggle with no mention that what they mean by that is a road of extreme medicalization of healthy bodies, sterilization, mutilation and telling a child that they can change biological sex. And then with a staggering lack of sense of irony and selfawareness they call Zucker's approach abusive!

So mutilating, sterilizing and lying to children is supporting them and helping them to figure out if they are really trans (whatever that is, there is no scientific or ethically sound consensus), homosexual or confused whilst being cautious about harmful medicalization is abusing them.

WTAF.

Aliasnumberone · 12/01/2017 20:31

News night programme from last night isn't available any more, I'm wondering the same as illegitimate. Maybe libel issues or maybe 'hate speech' accusation if Ray Blanchard was on... Let's face it Blanchard is responsible for 'literal violence and the deaths of trans people', I'm sure there were transactivists having conniptions that Ray got any air time at all regardless of what was actually said.

Aliasnumberone · 12/01/2017 20:52

There's a clip on Twitter from the show.

Shon who was the transwoman debating against Blanchard wrote this piece for the guradian in 2014, declaring themselves to be a gay man who likes to wear makeup. Fair enough.... Not sure a huge amount has changed tbf

www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014/dec/06/my-life-in-makeup

Thelilywhite · 12/01/2017 21:04

Got it on. 2 minutes in and already I have the rage. Gender stereotypes abound aaarrggggg

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 12/01/2017 21:06

Yep.

Poor Warner. It's OK to like less masculine activities and fancy boys and still be a boy.

Oblomov16 · 12/01/2017 21:06

Will sky+ it.
Am very troubled by the whole transgender phenomenon.

Datun · 12/01/2017 21:06

Goddddd - they are already conflating sex with gender. 30 seconds in

Twogoats · 12/01/2017 21:09

"I'm a trans woman myself!" -Shon

No shit!

Butterymuffin · 12/01/2017 21:10

Twitter is already awash with hostile tweets. #BBCthisworld is official hashtag it seems, but #transkids also being used.

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 12/01/2017 21:11

Slightly missing the point, but I really like the Mary Jane shoes the kid is walking around in in the dressing up filler shots.

Butterymuffin · 12/01/2017 21:13

Oh and #kidsknowbest is being used by hostile tweeters.

fieldofschemes · 12/01/2017 21:15

zucker practising conversion therapy...oh the irony...

Blerg · 12/01/2017 21:16

Can someone summarises what Zucker's approach actually was? I had to go and check the baby.

Blerg · 12/01/2017 21:19

And oh my god so much of the footage is around makeup and performing gender.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 12/01/2017 21:21

I've typed and deleted so many tweets and replies .... why should we/I be so scared?

fieldofschemes · 12/01/2017 21:23

Not a 'typical boy' does not equal a woman. Maybe with more gender critical psychologists and less Dr Spack's in the world young people might feel less need/pressure to mutilate themselves.

Also 'transgender camp' and 'running like a girl' purlease!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/01/2017 21:25

Re Zucker, this is long but good

nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/02/fight-over-trans-kids-got-a-researcher-fired.html

I don't think it is mentioned in the above article but he has also suggested that autism could be a.factor.

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illegitimateMortificadospawn · 12/01/2017 21:25

And oh my god so much of the footage is around makeup and performing gender.

I was just about to post how disquieting I found the amount of make-up the summer camp kids were wearing. I find US beauty pageants equally distasteful. It's sexualisation. Urgh.

Thelilywhite · 12/01/2017 21:29

Agree. Camps horrific. Its the ultimate dystopia

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