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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

woman loses residency of son she was raising as daughter

785 replies

BombadierFritz · 21/10/2016 18:38

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3859618/You-caused-son-great-harm-insisting-raising-girl-Boy-seven-sent-live-father-mother-raised-daughter.html

hmmm. ok so its daily mail reporting but I am conflicted
perhaps good if child was being pushed into something he wasnt
but wtf with the boringly stereotypical insistance on the type of toys played with

OP posts:
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Elendon · 21/10/2016 18:42

Another link.

boy living life entirely as a girl. I have a relative who as a midwife in the 60s encountered this except it was the other way around.

HalloToJasonIsaacs · 21/10/2016 18:42

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/21/boy-living-life-as-girl-removed-from-mothers-care-high-court-judge
Here's the Guardian's brief summary of the case. Obviously all sorts of problems with the mother, but the actions of the local authority are troubling.

Elendon · 21/10/2016 18:44

This is a mother with serious post natal issues.

MrsJamin · 21/10/2016 18:45

Common sense prevails! I wonder how the transing Mermaids will respond.

Elendon · 21/10/2016 18:47

Cross posts.

Original poster
BombadierFritz · 21/10/2016 18:48

thanks for guardian link. seems quite similar to daily mail in terms of main quotes. I know people who have, in the past, tried to raise children as the opposite sex due to their own mental health issues and desire for a child of the oppositesex. it has disturbed me that recently it seemed this had become almost a desired outcome, to have a trendy transgender child. so in some ways, as I do see it sometimes as a type of abuse, I am pleased a judge has stood up to it
on the other hand, the judge seems also to believe there are such things as toys for girls and toys for boys. not really a step forward.

OP posts:
MrsJamin · 21/10/2016 18:57

Mermaids have said on twitter "Mermaids have supported this family for over 2 years. This is a huge injustice and transphobic practice. Devastating for the child 😔"" - they need to be held accountable for their hand in this.

Fourormore · 21/10/2016 19:00

Full judgement probably gives a better picture - www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html

Elendon · 21/10/2016 19:00

Well mermaids can sing but their song either leads to disaster or no one listens to them.

Thirtyrock39 · 21/10/2016 19:04

Also feel it's a disturbing and damaging trend of today. I was a total tomboy and aged about 6/7 would often pretend to be a boy , could do a really good tree wee etc and if asked then I'd have probably said I wanted to be a boy but it was totally a phase and just part of acting things out as a kid. The idea that in today's society this could be argued as a sign of being transgender is pretty alarming .

Sparklesilverglitter · 21/10/2016 19:06

I think the judge made the right call.

Imagine the emotional harm to the child being forced to be something he wasn't it's not right. Surely that is a type of abuse?

The mother will hopefully look at accessing some mental health services for herself, she must need them

Elendon · 21/10/2016 19:06

So basically, Judge has said that boys will be boys and girls will be girls.

Such a cop out. These people get paid a six figure salary. It's lazy thinking.

Lweji · 21/10/2016 19:10

This is very different from living as a "non-gendered" child.
It reminds me of Munchausen by proxy for some reason. Only easier than pretending illnesses.

Eatthecake · 21/10/2016 19:11

I think the judge done what is best for the poor child.

To me to force your child to be something they are not is a type of abuse and it can leave deep emotional scars. Hopefully his Dad will help him to heal

I hope the mother seeks professional help, she clearly needs it to do that to her own child

I agree Thirtyrock
My middle DD hates dresses, hates hair/make up but adores all sports, climbing trees, helping DH fix the car and loves baking. Does that make her Trans gender? No she is just a child that does what she enjoys

Lweji · 21/10/2016 19:13

I think the judge was unfortunate, but I does look like the boy was prevented from choosing his own toys. I suspect he was trying to say that what the boy played with previously wasn't his actual preferences.

The problem here is up to what point he's being pressured by dad to act like a boy. I wonder.

Felascloak · 21/10/2016 19:19

elendon the full judgment is very interesting. To me the judge said it more to illustrate there is no evidence for the mothers assertion that the boy was transgender.
It's very scary and I feel very sad for the boy. And definitely agree mermaids need to be taking a long hard look at themselves. It seems almost cultish how the mother pushed that life on her son.

Elendon · 21/10/2016 19:22

The judge ruled on biology, the boy was a boy, but deemed he should have gender toys.

SpeckledyBanana · 21/10/2016 19:42

I saw this too. I think the judge did the right thing.

littleducks · 21/10/2016 19:50

The quote has been taken from the full judgement where it states( J boy F dad):

I have noted from reports that J has become interested in Power Rangers, SpongeBob, Superheroes and is constantly finding new interests. F, significantly to my mind, does not always share J's enthusiasms, though he goes along with them. It is striking that most of J's interests are male oriented. I am entirely satisfied, both on the basis of the reports and F's evidence at this hearing, that he has brought no pressure on J to pursue masculine interests. J's interests and energy are entirely self motivated

This reads differentlying to me that the newspaper quote. Lots of other details in the full judgement make me think the judge was right

Elendon · 21/10/2016 20:04

My daughters, biologically female, loved the Power Rangers and Sponge Bob, as did their brother. We all loved the tv series Heroes as well.

Gender based toys and TV series is an absolute nonsense. Biological sex is science. Or thinking the world is flat is an absolute nonsense, thinking earth revolves around the sun is science.

DorcasthePuffin · 21/10/2016 20:11

Elendon, did you read the full judgement? the judge said very clearly that she understood and accepted that some children, even from a young age, strongly identify with the opposite sex. But in this case, the evidence suggested this agenda was being pushed by the mother onto the child. The discussion of stereotypical toys was presented to show that, when living with a father who allegedly was happy to let the child choose his own identity, the child chose to start playing with stereotypically 'male' toys. Not because you have to play with those toys to be a boy, but because when exposed to male peers the child chose to fit with their norms. So it's not that boy toys made him a boy, but that without the mother present, her 'evidence' that he wanted to be a girl started to look rather thin.

DorcasthePuffin · 21/10/2016 20:14

I should add that I agree with you that gender based toys and TV is nonsense. But it was the mother who was the fierce proponent of that (e.g. her son wore nail varnish and dresses and so wanted to be a girl) and the judge was simply pointing out that the child was not fixated on 'girls toys'.

bigkidsdidit · 21/10/2016 20:15

But that doesn't work does it, unless we agree that liking spongebob = really a boy?

Or is the issue that the mother had refused to allow him to watch these programmes - evidence of forcing the identity onto him?