woman loses residency of son she was raising as daughter

[BombadierFritz]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3859618/You-caused-son-great-harm-insisting-raising-girl-Boy-seven-sent-live-father-mother-raised-daughter.html

hmmm. ok so its daily mail reporting but I am conflicted
perhaps good if child was being pushed into something he wasnt
but wtf with the boringly stereotypical insistance on the type of toys played with

[MrsJamin]

Mermaids are a dangerous organisation. I wonder whether in years to come there will be a huge group of people who group together to sue mermaids/social services for the damage done to them by being trans-ed as children. If they continue on to medical interventions this leads to infertility, mental health issues and other serious problems of taking synthetic hormones for years,which can lead to premature death.

[comehomemax]

The mother dismissed any concerns raised by the school saying it was because they are Catholic and implying that meant they were transphobic on this issue. The authorities again accepted this despite the judges view that the school had made a very strong case in raising their concerns and was a good example if correct safeguarding procedures.

Was it Brighton council that have a school form that asks how children identify at a similar young age? It's very concerning because that might, in this case, have resulted in the school suppressing its concerns about emotional harm.

[LittlePaintBox]

Anyone who is concerned about this should really read the judgement. The judge has drawn on a number of different professional opinions to reach a conclusion that social services were unwilling to reach - that the child was being damaged by his mother's obsession. There are also many examples of the mother lying to, and manipulating, the professionals involved. E.g. she stated that the Tavistock Clinic had recommended 'stealth transing' the child, so that nobody knew he was not a girl. The judge asked to see the Tavistock Clinic records to check this out, the mother refused permission for these to be released. The judge notes that, while the father had equal parental rights to authorise this, everyone did what the mother wanted. When the records were eventually seen, they made no mention of stealth transing. There seems to be no question of this child having been allowed to explore or determine his own identity. That is what the judge is concerned about. If anyone has misgendered this child, it's the mother.

[iPost]

agree that in a few years there will be a raft of abuse cases over similar

Yes. And this judgement might be oft pointed to in order to underline the potential for numerous, independent opportunities to halt parental abuse being not only missed, but actively shut down. By the very professionals who were supposed to be looking out for the child's interests.

Which is going to be expensive if other children are in similar circumstances, but don't have another parent forcing the issue of a closer look at the child's needs and realities. I can't see future compensation for a former child (presenting themselves as a mutilated, sterilised male/female, sacrificed on the alter of anti-transphobia) being peanuts. Plus too the cost of the god awful PR gov. agencies will have to manage. And all the inquiries. Inquiries of inquires. Scapegoat sackings, then compensation for "convient scapegoat" sackings. And so it rolls on.

Not that I personally think cost is the priority in contexts of this nature. But it does tend to be a motivator for those with the power to enforce a more investigative, less "accept at face value" protocol in cases where there are assertions that a minor is trans, or has presented as trans, since they were tiny.

Which will potentially have a knock on effect on how red flags are managed in cases where a minor is deemed trans at a later stage, post puberty.

I don't see this as the final nail in the coffin of the "if somebody (large or small) says they are trans, they are trans, full stop, no discussion" mindset.

However it is a nail.

Because that judgement is a sobering read. If in this, of all cases, professionals chose to shut down red flags and alarm bells..... then there must be the potential for cases where the parent was more subtle, less evidently "off" and unencumbered by the irritant of a NRP focrcing the non action of social services into the light, via a courtroom.

I fully expect a significant wodge of transactivists to run in the main with a "this is a transphobic, bigoted ruling !!" stance. Not least to cover the back of Mermaids, whose position is looking well wobbly in light of the ruling.

That's another nail.

Because it will underline the extent to which ideology may have become far far more of a priority than a real life kid at the sharp end of intentional, or non intentional, parental abuse. Plus it raises the spectre of parents, who want to help their child, potentially being left wide open to being advised, guided, perhaps even indoctrinated, by ideologues.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I agree re the judge. The mention of "boy's things" was simply to show that when left to his own devices the boy did not fixate on "girl's things". It was his mother who was claiming he had a natural inclination for "girl's things" because he was a girl.

She sounds a total nightmare.

[Beebeeeight]

There will bea lot more cases like this imo.

Hopefully when these damaged kids start to successful sue the NHS/ clinics/ mermaids/ local authorities attitudes and policies and the law will change.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Yes, after my reading I agree re the judge.

iPost "I fully expect a significant wodge of transactivists to run in the main with a "this is a transphobic, bigoted ruling !!" stance. Not least to cover the back of Mermaids, whose position is looking well wobbly in light of the ruling".

I'd happening! See Mermaids' Twitter account and also the change.org petition.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

I also read the bit about the child's inappropriate touching and his explanation to his father that he didn't like his genitals 'wobbling' and words to the effect that his mother didn't like her bits wobbling either, and that she had "a big fat sandwich".

[MrsJamin]

Yeah mermaids are not taking this lying down (see here) - their response that the judge has split up a happy family is terrifying. How do they not see the abuse? So blinkered.

[ElsaAintAsColdAsMe]

I am the parent of a child who identifies as trans (although I'm not allowing blockers or hormones while I have a say).

I joined mermaids a couple of years back. They have a few questions to ask before you sign up, they then call you.

At this point I was already years down this path with my child.

When they called, before I said anything they kept repeating that I was doing the right thing, constantly and without question, I wasn't even sure I was doing the right thing.

More and more frequently on my time on mermaids they unquestioningly told people that boy + doll = girl or girl + toy car = boy. They all support every parent no matter how ridiculous the 'story' or age. There are parents of children as young as 2 and 3 on there.

They all give advice on what to say to get offered hormones quicker, how to skip parts of the counselling, what to say to make things seem more convincing etc.

I questioned one parent and was kicked off for being unsupportive.

You may think I am a hypocrite as my child has changed names and presents as the opposite sex currently, but I would absolutely never recommend mermaids to anyone, they are dangerous (and currently have a campaign between themselves to stop what they perceive as transphobia on MN).

I know I'm probably not welcome here due to some of my views on trans issues but I thought my personal experience of mermaids may be relevant here.

[Smartleatherbag]

Elsa, your post is very interesting, thank you for sharing. I think the main issue some have (including me) is the shutting down of critical thinking, not necessarily the trans itself. Mermaids shut down critical thinking, just as you describe.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Elsa, I don't know your circumstances or those of your child, but I certainly don't think that all parents with trans children are in the wrong.

What you say about Mermaids is chilling.

That is what terrifies me the most - there needs to be places for discussion and debate and these are steadily being shut down.

[iPost]

MrsJamin

Re the tweeting

On the bright side, ideologically blinded tweeting underlines the tight, unquestioning, blind aherance to ideology. Regardless of the cost to any individual child. If you want people to notice cult-ish tendencies, adherents openly displaying them in a public sphere helps a lot.

On the less bright side... women's aid re-tweeting does not fill me with confidence at their ability to prioritise abuse victims.

[ElsaAintAsColdAsMe]

When I joined I wanted to talk to other parents who were unsure, who didn't know what they were doing, or if it was the right thing to do.

They won't allow discussions such as that on there, one person says they are unsure and they are met with total support and encouragement. It is like brainwashing.

It's hard having a child who feels differently and is unhappy, then when you finally find supportive people its difficult not to get sucked into their agenda.

My child has been 'trans' for years, before it was a thing really, over the last year it has become popular and it's since then that I've noticed this notion of toys, clothes and colours being used as a trans issue, when it really shouldn't be at all.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

In your shoes, Elsa, I think what I'd want is clear, compassionate and unbiased advice about options including 'transitioning', but also considering a child's mental health status (by this I mean considering the possibility that their dysmorphia / dysphoria is a mental health issue). Instead, the possibilities seem to be the cult that is Mermaids and internet advice that is polarised into hostile camps. I do hope that you have been able to find balanced and reasonable professional help amongst all this for your child / young person.

[StepAwayFromTheThesaurus]

I thinking the problem with how this case is being reported is that people like you, Elsa, start feeling that it might in any way apply to your situation. But it shouldn't. It's a completely separate issue and shouldn't be stirred in together with what you've been experiencing with your child.

As others have commented it's really about a gender version of munchausen's by proxy and has nothing at all to do with children and families who are genuinely suffering issues around gender dysphoria. Given how fashionable transgender currently is and how much attention parents can get from insisting they have a trans child, it's likely that lots and lots of cases of this kind of thing will come out. And that's a dreadful shame for families who are experiencing genuine problems (who are all too easily shoved aside and silenced by those whose need for attention is served by advancing a particular agenda).

Mermaids are actually shooting themselves in the foot here by not distancing themselves from it. If they really did care about the children (as opposed to some dubious political agenda) they'd be firmly drawing a line between this case and the families they are supporting. I suspect, however, that quite a few of the activists have a very generalised case of gender dysphoria by proxy and are desperate to draw as many people in as they could. That helps no one (as you appear to have found, Elsa).

[iPost]

They won't allow discussions such as that on there, one person says they are unsure and they are met with total support and encouragement. It is like brainwashing.

It's hard having a child who feels differently and is unhappy, then when you finally find supportive people its difficult not to get sucked into their agenda.

I have a parental choice in common with the mother in the judgment. Not trans. And I know EXACTLY what you mean.

I think there has to be room left for the possibility that at least some of the mother's intransigence regarding her child's transness can be laid at the door of self described experts and "support and guidance" bodies.

The sheer relief of not being alone anymore can lower barriers to critical thinking.

The not wanting to be all alone again is a softener to quietening ones inner "hang on a minute" voice, which leads to a smoothed, non fact checking, path to acceptance of the One True Word.

The status and attention one can attract by being "more ideological pure than thou", or "most victimised victim of all the oppressed and persecuted (by concerned officials) victims" has been known to encourage formerly more balanced people to become decidedly less balanced and become one of those who evangelise the One True Word in order to build upon their new found high status.

The high stakes of being ejected, perhaps doxxed, maybe chased all over the net and hounded as a person with unspeakable views, convinces many to not challenge assertions. Leaving those that do feeling extremely isolated, despite many thinking in their group privately thinking they have a point. But the atmosphere makes just keeping their heads down far more attractive. Even to the extent that they will obediently make the observable, required supportive and outraged noises when the shit hits the fan in the mainstream. Despite personal misgivings.

All of that can combine to leading people to a point where the kid's needs and reality matters less than the identity, status & belonging a parent has acquired in their support and knowledge circles.

Support and guidance left almost entirely in the hands of ideologues is really bad news. For kids and parents.

[StepAwayFromTheThesaurus]

Absolutely iPost.

[ElsaAintAsColdAsMe]

I have paid for private counselling, had NHS counselling, gender specific counselling and counselling at the gender clinic.

Because my child has no mental health issues and we don't want to go down the route of hormones as yet we have just been left to it now.

My child is happy living as is for the moment, so that's where we are.

The new wave of trans people aren't helping families like mine at all. For years we have quietly been going about our lives, not drawing attention, being quietly respectful of others and now I'm in a position of supporting trans rights to a point but having to defend my family when we are being tarred with the same brush as activists and people such as the woman in the op, and having to make choices now such as toilets and changing rooms (where my child was using accessible ones for years the school are insistent that my child should use the toilets assigned to 'chosen' gender now)

We were fine before, everything is an issue now.

[ElsaAintAsColdAsMe]

The sheer relief of not being alone anymore can lower barriers to critical thinking.

100%

[StepAwayFromTheThesaurus]

We were fine before, everything is an issue now.

That is just so awful. I'm really sorry that somebody else's political project has made things so difficult for you. You could almost call it ironic but that seems inappropriate when it's actual people's lives we're talking about about.

If contemporary transactivism is harming even the people it purports to be helping, then we need to ask: what (and whose) purposes is it intended to serve?

[iPost]

Elsa Actually, we both know what I meant but I think I wrote it wrong....

the sheer relief of not being alone anymore can RAISE barriers to critical thinking.

[ElsaAintAsColdAsMe]

Ironic is the word I would use Step certainly in our case this new trans movement is doing more harm than good.

In fact another thread has just started about the story in the op with the poster saying parents of trans children simply do it for attention and special treatment.

Very few people actually know about my child as we moved and I want to keep it that way and have as little attention as possible.

I think you got it right the first time ipost 😀

[ArcheryAnnie]

Else I am grateful for you coming on here and telling us of your experience. I don't think you are a hypocrite at all. I think many of us here who are called "transphobic" support entirely the wish of anyone to live and present as they wish, and it's just when women's rights and privacy are trampled, and reality is sidelined, that we've started to kick back.

(I have no doubt at all that child-me - with my male alter-ego name and borrowed big brother's clothes - would have been in deep trouble if current trans orthodoxy had been present when I was a child, whereas I was simply deciding to be a boy at times because being a girl was so restrictive and generally shit.)