Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 5 discussion thread ** SPOILERS**

[OlennasWimple]

WARNING: HERE BE DRAGONS (probably) AND SPOILERS

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 5 "EASTWATCH"

Come and discuss the fifth episode in the penultimate series, airing August 14th at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6. Only three more episodes to go this season!!

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones. There is a spoiler thread running here if you want to talk about production leaks and insider information as well

Valonquar is High Valaryian for little sibling. It is traditionally translated as 'little brother' but it's actually a gender neutral term so could be brother or sister.

Cersei should have her guards flayed alive. Tyrion must be one of the most recognisable and famous people in Westeros, and he was able to just stroll into the Red Keep basement?

Mind you, Sansa's guards weren't much cop at the gates of Winterfell either, were they. Isn't there a war on?

History of Westeros podcast were discussing all the characters who have died and been re-animated.

The ice zombies are brought back with ice, and are the armies of the Wilhite Walkers. They move and think relatively slowly.

The fire zombies are brought back by fire, and include Jon Snow, Beric Dondarrion, all three dragons, and possibly Melisandre. They are quick of thought and action.

The Mountain/Robert Strong can move pretty quick when he needs to, although I'm not sure if he was brought back by fire in the way of Jon Snow.

HaveToBe it's not confirmed that it's gender neutral. It's meaning is 'little brother' but it has been theorised it could be genderless, due to the word 'prince' being so.

Have read most but not all of the thread, so apologies if this was already mentioned but I assumed that little finger's scroll was more about blackmailing Sansa, than turning Arya against her?
Surely Arya will acknowledge how young Sansa was when she forced to write it. But if LF successfully manouevres Sansa into a position of real power, he could use the scroll as a way to control her - it would look bad for the Queen of the North to have written that note, especially once LF has twisted the truth.

I wondered whether the ice zombies were made by a form of warging - the night king has highly advanced multi tasking and warging powers and can control thousands of dead bodies all at once. Except that the eyes of the ice zombies turn blue, whilst the eyes of the warged turn white.

Elena I love the idea of Arthur Dwayne .

I think Sansa's marriage could be set aside in the books by a Council of the Seven as it has not been consummated. I think Littlefinger was banking on Tyrion being dead before Sweetrobin's expiration from sweetsleep poisoning.

Didn't Fireball make his wife join the Silent Sisters so he could become a member of the Kingsguard?

squishy one of the common 'steps' involved in grooming is convincing a person that they're family can't be trusted and are a threat to them.

What better way than to actually make that family member be a threat?

Littlefinger wants Sansa to himself. The best way to do that is to make Sansa 'get rid' of Arya due to feeling threatened by her. Arya should be able to see through this.

I think both girls will be able to see through LF. Sansa herself knows how cunning he can be and what he really wants in the end. He's on my list for characters that will die

Why is David talking about rowing significant/fan service?

I'm assuming that your autocorrect changed Davos? It's fan service because memes like this have been kicking around on fan sites for years. Davos sent Gendry away rowing a boat away from Dragonstone several seasons' ago and hasn't been seen since.

Why anyone would assume he has been rowing for 3 years just because he hasn't been seen on screen is beyond me.

It's like assuming Ghost has ceased to exist....

Will Arya know when the scroll was written? Or will she assume the worst because that is what she does where Sansa is concerned?

One thing I like in terms of realism, but find frustrating in terms of plot progression and the like, is how no matter how clear-headed and competent a person is, they seem to regress quite substantially when they're with their family - specifically siblings. I love Arya and Sansa as separate individuals, but find them both so very frustrating when they're together. Likewise Tyrion's regression to broken little brother when he met Jaime, and Jaime's inability to see through Cersei's facade when he's with her (although that's arguably love as well as the sibling thing)

On a similar theme, we know that Bran and Gilly (and to a degree Sam) both have information about Jon Snow, and so this information has to be processed by the appropriate people - so it's sort of a waiting game as to how the exposition gets to the right people. Again it's realistic - this is how people discover things, but it's likely to be frustratingly slow.

As for the Fellowship of the Wight-Catchers. I'm totally against this foolish plan. Couldn't Dany have zoomed off up there? I know she said she didn't want to leave Dragonstone, but surely with the two dragons remaining, plus her Dothraki, plus Cersei temporarily being without an army, that was the perfect time to go Wight hunting.

I think Jorah has to die, as much as I would rather he didn't. He's an obstacle to the Jon and Dany pairing (if they're going with that). Personally I'd be quite content with Jorah and Dany getting together. In the books her thing with that dude who's conveniently disappeared from the tv shows and whose name I apparently have completely forgotten, that was all about her discovery that she could do what she wanted, she could call the shots re: sex and relationships etc and not always be the bought wife or the political marriage of uniting nations. Dany and Jon, aunt/nephew thing aside, just seems too contrived, whereas there was genuine happiness and relief and feeling between Dany and Ser Bear.

Daario Naharis!

Yes Arya and Fireball is meant to be a good guy.

In Dany's House of the Undying visions in ACoK, she sees:

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness… mother of dragons, bride of fire

The silver relates to Drogo. The corpse has been suggested to be one of several possible characters including Victaion, Euron and Daario. The blue flower most likely (although there is nothing definite in the series) refers to Jon Snow and his connection to the Blue Rose of Winterfell.

This does suggest foreshadowing of a Jon/Dany alliance by marriage.

BlueKarou I think your analysis of the dynamic between Arya and Sansa is spot-on! It always seems such a shame that so many book/show fans seem to think that by 'liking' one of the sisters they automatically have to hate the other. GRRM spends a lot of time weaving their chapters together to show similarities as well as differences. Both have strengths and weaknesses in their characters.

My autocorrect would make a fabulous ASOIAF story with Arthur Dwayne.

Arthur Dwayne Dibbly!

Love those teeth.

I need to get an iOS ASOIAF autocorrect patch!

I had maestros in the citadel last week!

Yeah I think Jorah is going to have a noble, beautiful death.

Cos he's just tragic, isn't he? It's almost unbearable at this stage! Poor bloke.

I wouldn't mind but I still find him way sexier than Jon Snow - I definitely would pick him, even if he's a bit old.

Ah ha thank you!!

And yes, Davos not my autocorrect!

Have you all read the books? Lots of characters and things here I have no recollection of

Replying to way upthrwd, but didn't Dalla already have mance's son? He's the baby that gilly took with grown up Sam- and she left baby Sam in westeros?

Have you all read the books?

I've read the main series twice but I've also read the Dunk and Egg stories, which give a lot of background to the history of Westeros and the World of Ice and Fire which is a 'fake history' book (with very nice pictures). I have both on Kindle so have highlighted anything I thought particularly relevant.

didn't Dalla already have mance's son?

Yes, but I think the first time Val is mentioned she is with a heavily pregnant Dalla.

I've just started reading book 1just so I can follow these threads

Ep was too dark. Or maybe it is just me. I didn't realise Tyrion was there in that cellar place until he spoke.

Also see that they do more of their faster-than-light travelling. Five minutes to King's Landing, then once business is concluded, five minutes later they are back in front of Dany.

Think Jim Broadbent is miscast as the Archmaester. Or maybe it is the lines. I just don't get the impression of great wisdom.

Will say that the plot lines are brilliant.

I wish Bran would just send Jon a Raven to tell him what he knows!