The Handmaid's Tale Vol 2

[PacificDogwod]

I go to work and this is what happens: the previous thread fills up when I have pertinent things to say!

Hope nobody minds, I've taken the opportunity to start a new one before the Offspring demand food and the likes...

One of the masterful strikes of strategic genius of the new regime is the division and envy between everybody and everybody: men vs women, women in different roles vs other women, high ranking vs low ranking.
No solidarity is allowed - even the partnered Handmaids were half companion and have guard. Never knowing who might be an Eye and who to trust must be soul destroying.

I think Serena is quite a tragic figure - in the book and in the TV series. She must feel so betrayed by the ideals she fought for and that she is now kind of forced to uphold because otherwise what would her life be?? Admitting that she supporting a world view that while giving her some kind of social status by dint of her husband's role, considers her without value as she cannot have children would render everything she stands for invalid, and herself by extension.

The author who wrote a book about women being able to electrocute men by touch thereby causing a power change over (sorry, I cannot remember either name ) was talking on Radio Scotland today. She said the idea for her book came from when she wondered why so many mechanisms in society seem to go back to the fact that 'more men can throw a woman across a room than the other way around'. It's a depressing thought that physical strength underpins so much.

Only just twigged that the fragrant Nick is played by Max Minghella, son of the great film director Anthony.

I think serena joy might be her original name - she was an evangelical telly preacher so I imagine she had the type of parents who would give a name that also fits nicely in the new regime?

ANOTHER SPOILER ALERT

Her mother is going to appear in the next series.

Her mother didn't want this world. The second wavers were against sexual exploitation and rather scathing about beauty standards (symbolised by the magazines)
In the 80's when the book was written feminist anti porn campaigner found common cause with elements of the religious right in the US. For very different reasons of course but both groups saw it as a kind of rot in the mind.

The Waterfords' Martha is called Rita.

Really i had thought they might be all Martha because in the bible Martha is the one doing the housework.

Darn it! Hoped I'd be able to rectify my daftness over not clocking the Of-mans name, naming of the handmaids (despite the hint that the names changed with ownership).

There was modern medicine before the takeover- do we know why they went down the ritualised rape route rather than IVF?

A lot of religions see IVF and wrong BrieAndChilli - it's interfering with God's way (fertility drugs) and also the fact that embryos may be lost or damaged.

So it's either that or because IVF doesn't allow men to own women quite as well has having a handmaid does.

Plus if you think about it any baby a handmaid has it the man's alone - the handmaid being just a vessel and the wife barren.

Plus rape is cheaper and doesn't require the involvement of doctors. Doctors do tend to be first against the wall (up on the wall?) in societies like this so I imagine the ones left would be few and far between and not interested in performing anything controversial.

When they talk about taking Handmaids to the doctor I do wonder if it's more of a specialised nurse level of training than full doctors. The full doctors that remain are probably only just sufficient to deal with pregnancy and birth complications etc.

I've been thinking about Nick's first wife. Considering that, at the time, the birthrate was incredibly low, there's a good chance that she would have been infertile. Making it all the more upsetting that her husband left her for another, fertile, woman.

This may leave her in a bit of a no mans land. She shouldn't be classed as a sinner (unless the new regime blamed her for her husband leaving her) so wouldn't be sent to the colonies. However, she's already been married (second hand goods) so wouldn't be picked as a Wife. If she is infertile, she wouldn't be a Handmaid. Therefore, she would probably be a Martha.

Shamelessly placemarking as hadn't realised the other thread was full.

I wasn't sure if Stevens wife felt sorry for her or was just uncomfortable with her sleeping with her husband either.

I missed the conversation between offred and Nick in the kitchen (typical for baby to wake in the middle of my favourite program), did he say he was an eye?

Cru do you mean Luke's first wife? The Martha thing makes sense. Poor woman.

Wonder what would become of a wife who had had children but been cheated on and left? Would her children have been taken too - to be brought up in a man/woman traditional household? Suspect they would have been

it's deviating too far from the book to be enjoyable now i think. The scene where ofglen got in the car was just ridiculous. The conversation with nick where she asked was he an eye-just stupid.

Would you rather have a life where you had to prostitute yourself so you could get money to survive or have a life where you were a handmaiden and were raped regularly but got food and care?

Not much of a choice. And you can see why someone might not want someone else to make trouble for them when their new life is "so much better than before".

Meanwhile in Saudi....

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-religious-police-riyadh-islam-mohammed-bin-salman-vision-2030-a7808796.html

Handmaid, obviously.

-The rape is guaranteed to be vaginal and not involve any foreign objects
-it's only for a few days a month, not hours every single day
-You aren't at risk from STDs
-if you do get pregnant you get a nine/ten month period of grace from the rape. Also you know although you don't get to keep your baby (which you likely wouldn't anyway as an addict prostitute) at least you will receive antenantal care and no getting beaten up in hope of miscarriage, also your baby wouldn't be born addicted
-no beatings from clients / pimps. I know the Commanders and Wives are allowed to be a little rough but there are rules against beatings that go too far
-food and shelter is guaranteed

Like the Aunt said - freedom from. A powerful incentive.

Aren't the handmaiden's just prostituting themselves to survive?

Prostituting themselves is a pretty loaded term. They can be raped or they can die. I don't think that can be considered prostituting themselves.

Yes, sorry, I did mean Luke's first wife. I wonder if we'll see her in any flashbacks?

Offglen gets a lot of freedom for a handmaid. Does everyone turn a blind eye for a hopeful outcome and the ceremony is just a compulsory formality?

Also, did anyone read this on the BBC news magazine? [[Missing babies: Israel's Yemenite children affair
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-40342143 Missing Babies]] .

Link fail apologies!

I didn't realise Luke was married and having an affair with June. It would be interesting in seeing flashblacks from serena joy and the commander how they were before all of this.

I'll be so sorry when the series and this discussion ends...

I haven't posted much on the various threads, but have really enjoyed the discussion to date.

I can't think of any other space where this would be possible, so thanks all... :)

To add to batteries post, she also probably wouldn't get any sort of healthcare in the US as a drug addicted prostitute. Whether for pregnancy or any other reason

Just caught up. Couldn't help but find Nick rather appealing in the last scene...