The Handmaid's Tale Vol 2

[PacificDogwod]

I go to work and this is what happens: the previous thread fills up when I have pertinent things to say!

Hope nobody minds, I've taken the opportunity to start a new one before the Offspring demand food and the likes...

One of the masterful strikes of strategic genius of the new regime is the division and envy between everybody and everybody: men vs women, women in different roles vs other women, high ranking vs low ranking.
No solidarity is allowed - even the partnered Handmaids were half companion and have guard. Never knowing who might be an Eye and who to trust must be soul destroying.

I think Serena is quite a tragic figure - in the book and in the TV series. She must feel so betrayed by the ideals she fought for and that she is now kind of forced to uphold because otherwise what would her life be?? Admitting that she supporting a world view that while giving her some kind of social status by dint of her husband's role, considers her without value as she cannot have children would render everything she stands for invalid, and herself by extension.

The author who wrote a book about women being able to electrocute men by touch thereby causing a power change over (sorry, I cannot remember either name ) was talking on Radio Scotland today. She said the idea for her book came from when she wondered why so many mechanisms in society seem to go back to the fact that 'more men can throw a woman across a room than the other way around'. It's a depressing thought that physical strength underpins so much.

[ElenaGreco123]

What is the chance of June not opening the package? Zero to nil?

They are all cracking up, aren't they? All that pressure building up with no outlet.

I also had the impression that the Martha's son was fighting against Gilead.

[woodhill]

Warren seemed kinder in some ways than Fred, commander despite the stuff he did with handmaiden. Must read the book again.

Does June conceive again?

Enjoying the series.

[IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt]

It definitely felt that the tension was building last night to an almost unbearable level, with cracks appearing all round.

So much happened that the episode started to resemble an action movie at times, especially with Moira's escape.

It will be interesting to see how the story moves on in the final episode of the series and how this matches the events in the book / or not given the divergence thus far.

[noblegiraffe]

Even Aunt Lydia looked like she was having moments of doubt, I thought.

[orlantina]

There were elements of that that reminded me of the Resistance in WW2. Women who went out with German commanders but who could pass on information to the resistance gained from their relationship. Yet they would be judged by people who didn't know what was going on really harshly.

You have to wonder what each person was thinking during so many of those scenes. You could just imagine the discussion in a school setting. (but I'm wondering if such a TV series would ever be shown in schools)

[BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings]

Is it possible the aunts are older mothers themselves? Obviously who align with the regime?

I've really got the feeling from the last couple of episodes that Lydia is Janine's actual mum!!

[orlantina]

When they saw Janine jump, what did they see?

A desperate human being, a mum, drawn to commit suicide due to their regime and actions?

A handmaiden who could provide new babies for the regime?

[AdalindSchade]

I think they saw a waste of a uterus

[LostGarden]

@Ragusa regarding the "if anyone was affected" line - I was born in the late 50s to a teenager. She was allowed to look after me for a few months then had to travel across the country and hand me over at a children's home then walk away and go on with life as if I had never happened.

Janine clutching her baby on that bridge reminded me of the agonies my birth mother went through. I know she tried desperately to get me back, I saw the letters she wrote and eventually met her.

And June's face and her hands clenching the sheets while she was raped by the commander reminded me vividly of incidents during my very abusive marriage.

Because we live in what is and always has been, a misogynistic world I'm sure there are all kinds of resonances with people who watch THT.

I have also changed my surname to one I chose because all my former surnames signified the male in my life considered to have authority over me.

[ElenaGreco123]

Were we meant to think that male voice in the room with Ruby was Commander Waterford's?

[tenpoletudor]

LostGarden

I agree. Whilst not many of us are living in a 'dystopian hell' hopefully, we are all living in a sexist and arguably a misogynistic society.

Given the level of forced sex in the series it is no wonder there is a helpline number.

I am sorry for what you have been through
I have wondered about changing my surname for similar reasons.

[orlantina]

Aren't the Commanders' wives allowed to be together 'unguarded'? When they were walking along with Janine's baby, they had a guard with them.

I was also thinking of rights over a child - and how that's changed. It was up till the 17th century (?) I think - that the husband had automatic rights to a child. No questions, no court. The child was his. I remember watching Garrows' law when the couple separated and the mother wasn't allowed to see her baby at all.

[BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings]

I think the guard was for the baby? As they are such a precious resource they need to be protected at all times?

[GColdtimer]

I don't think so @ElenaGreco123 - just a random punter.

[ElenaGreco123]

Thank you.

[RobotandPenguin]

Apologies if I have missed something but can anyone explain why Moira ended up in Jezebels? My understanding is that she was caught in the escape attempt and given the choice of Jezebel's or the colonies but we know that she is fertile - this is why she was in the red centre in the first place, so it seems at odds with everything else we've seen to have given her those options as either would be a waste of a precious fertile woman. The treatment of June, Emily and Janine shows that they punish and then send the fertile straight back to handmaiden duties so why not Moira?

[Wheelycote]

I wondered that too. Can't see that they'd put her on the pill when they're desperate for healthy children.

[figtreetwig]

I think they considered her too rebellious and that she might recruit other handmaidens in the rebellion. Janine was probably considered easier to control as she is a more vulnerable character.

[noblegiraffe]

They didn't know OfGlen was working for the resistance, her punishment and restoration as a Handmaid was because she was sleeping with a Martha. Moira was more rebellious, probably gave them hell when she was captured and so couldn't possibly be put in a house as a Handmaid.

I was struck again last night about how the other wife was saying Serena was lucky for having such an good Handmaid. I wonder what the others are like, they all seem very similar and obedient when out shopping, yet Janine was compared to a feral cat.

[deadringer]

I assumed that if women in jezabels get pregnant the baby will be adopted by a childless couple, possibly one that have been unsuccessful with handmaid. We know that there are orphanages too. I also thought that the guard was following them to protect the baby. That poor baby, her 'mum' doesn't seem interested in her at all.

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

Given how Moira had attacked an aunt at the Red Centre I don't think it would be considered safe to put her in a house as a handmaid, where she could get into the kitchen or the bedroom of a sleeping commander and his wife and would be allowed out shopping. At Jezebels they probably have less freedom and are left alone less.

[ASauvingnonADay]

Absolutely fascinating thread!

[RobotandPenguin]

That's helpful, thanks. As June was also complicit in the attack and escape and was put back on duty after swift and bloody punishment, and we've seen other punishments such as eye gouging and FGM, I did wonder if they wouldn't have rendered Moira helpless/unable to attack in some way rather than waste the womb. Or is that too evil, even for this Regime?

[InigoTaran]

So many unanswered questions! Wouldn't it be great if MN could do a webchat with Margaret Atwood?

[MelanieCheeks]

I think the book says the women in Jezebels have been sterilised.