Game of Thrones S6 ep 2 - DO NOT CLICK ON THIS UNLESS YOU WANT TO SEE VERY SPOILERY DISCUSSION INDEED

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THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSING EP 2, INCLUDING SPOILERS. READ NO FURTHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS. GOT THAT? SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

QUITE, QUITE SURE? YOU REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS SERIES 6, EPISODE 2?

OK. I think that should be enough.

Right. R B - greatest TV villain of all time? I didn't see that coming!

He's just left there though.

No way, why would he go back to winterfell? He wouldn't be able to do anything to Ramsay in the state he's in. It would be suicide.

I think he would go back. He left to get sansa out not to save himself. He doesn't see any future with the Starks and the greyjoys rejected him. He has no life left to lose. I think he will go on a suicide mission to get revenge on Ramsey.

Also if the other stark kid is the 'gift' mentioned in the trailer then Theon gets to rescue him into the bargain before dieing with honour regained. Come on, it so makes sense!

In the books I always felt that ultimately Theon will be sacrificed in front of a hearts tree. That was the only he felt safe. 'They know my name.' I know it was Bran, but still.

Actually in the books 'the gift' almost always refers to the gift of mercy.

Does "the gift" not refer to the land south of the wall given to the nights watch?

Yes, but that is the Gift. Sorry I shall stop obsessing.

You're right when you think about it. Mercy is usually to go to be sent to the wall to join the nightswatch. So the gift is The Gift. Or The Gift is the gift?

Hasn't this week went quickly? Who's excited for Monday?

"to be sent to" Don't know how "to go" got in there

Sorry can I ask - I fast forwarded through the dog-eating-baby scene and then my baby woke up and I didn't realise I missed it but where has Theon gone? Last I saw of him was end of last episode when Brienne saved them.

Ummm......can I ask a stupid question......

What's the Tower Of Joy??

The on has ridden off back to the Iron Isles.

Tower Of Joy

Was the site of the battle were Robert defeated Rhaegar and with him the Targaryen dynasty as while they were doing this, Tywin marched on Kings Landing and Jamie murdered the King.

Rhaegar had Lyanna with him and she is believed to have given birth to at least Jon Snow if not Jon and Meera Reed.

What is less certain is whether the current narrative we know : that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna who was in love with and betrothed to Robert is in fact the truth or whether Lyanna was in love with Rhaegar we only have Roberts word on that so far.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ7vkmUNTPA

Did anyone see this on family guy?

Ah thanks Everysongbird that clears that up.

I'm glad we're getting to see more of the past events, hopefully it will answer some questions!

Actually, Robert killed Rhaegar at the battle of the Trident and was nowhere near the Tower of Joy. Ned was sent to retrieve Lyanna instead and he and his men (including Howland Reed) met members of the Kingsguard in battle. I think that only Ned and Howland survived, and shortly after, Lyanna died in a 'bed of blood', the reason for which is unknown (but highly speculated upon).

SPOILER for show watchers

In fairness Rhaegar died at the Trident when Robert drove his warhammer in his chest. That is I why the Ian McShane character is important, as he is based where Rhaegar died and lost his rubies from his armour in the water.

Rhaegar left Lyanna with 3 of the best and most loyal (!) Kings Guard in a small unknown fort in Dorne, when the entire royal family including King Aerys + wife + children and Rhaegar's wife and children was guarded by the one teenage Jaime Lannister, who was more of hostage in King's Landing himself. So people obviously speculate who could have been more important to protect than all the rest of the family. (Sorry, I know it is probably meant to be a love story, but I have no respect for Rhaegar.)

Ned went there to rescue his sister and never breathed a word even to his wife what happened there and where all his friends died. All he said was, "oh by the way I had a bastard on the way and he is going to live with us". New mother Catelyn was unamused.

Sorry, Queen x-post

So, much as I would love to see Rhaegar (he's got to be hot, surely), he won't be in the Tower of Joy flashback

But maybe we'll get confirmation finally of Jon Snow's parentage!

I would forgive you, gingercat, except that you dissed Rhaegar. Obviously the Baratheon propaganda has had an effect on you

Ooops got it wrong, to be fair, so much info in all books some gets fuzzy. I WAS wondering last night why Robert didn't much remark on Jon Snow when he met him, so he too believed him to be Ned's, and may never have known that Lyanna died in childbirth allegedly

As I'm fairly sure that Rhaegar & Lyanna is a love story and not an abduction and rape, I always wondered whether Robert (and even Ned) knew that? Or was he in denial a bit, do you think?

Your Majesty It is easy to diss Rhaegar from the distance, I'd probably be the first one to fall under his spell. Moody, clever, sexy, gifted at everything, otherworldly beauty, and heir to the Iron Throne. What's not to like?!
I was very upset by what happened to Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon though.

wickedlazy Hope you will not see this post, but the gift of mercy in the book is to end one's suffering by killing them.

How will Arya break her oath? Unauthorised hit? Did she take any oaths at all? Maybe she'll retrieve Needle. Or maybe it will be her Mercy chapter and the title of the theatre production will be Oathbreaker.

Robert was so in denial! No one else had even vaguely ambiguous memories of Rhaegar. Everyone else thought he was the coolest guy on earth.