TV show decisions that are just WRONG - I'll start with the West Wing.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

There must be loads of these. I'm sure ER is not in fact a Bible to medical correctness (say it isn't so!).

The one that bugs me is the bit the West Wing where the President breaks out into Latin. It makes me cringe. It's bad, bad Latin (IMHO).

And also - of course - the fact Toby never gets a chance to clear his name. I love Richard Schiff for explaining he played it assuming Toby was covering for someone, which is great explanation of a frustrating storyline. But I never believed Bartlett (who seems to me so good at accepting people's different points of view) would have judged him so quickly.

Is there anything that bugs you massively? Either for being factually wrong or just not fitting your sense of the characters.

Wrong in that it shouldn't have happened - Ross and Rachel getting back together. Just NO.

Can't say about the Latin but read about priests discussing that scene with Sorkin and though they discussed the language, i.e. the script, nothing was said about the Latin.

I thought Toby did leak the military shuttle story and wasn't covering for anyone. Grief and anger because of and towards his brother. That said, thought it was shitty story-telling and Richard Schiff made remarks about TWW producers wanting to save money by reducing roles of some major characters and so made Toby the leak.

Ooh, yes. Absolutely!

I lost interest in Friends when that happened - I just couldn't believe it.

OTOH I loved Joey and Phoebe so I may be a lost cause.

Ross and Rachel were a crap couple. They didn't work at all. Monica and Chandler were a good couple though. They got it right with those two.

Erm, let me think - personally I think Only fools and horses should have finished when they got that money. It was a good place to end it but they brought it back for a bit. It was crap after that!

fiderer - oh, that is good to know. I still hate it though, I'm afraid. I find it deeply implausible that a Catholic, even an angry Catholic, would come out with that. And I don't think anyone lapses into syntactically-odd Latin, even if they're very immersed in it. It's not like liturgical or Classical Latin - it's like English translated into Latin (which it is). It just bothers me as otherwise he seems so devout and his faith is so strong. I can see him being angry with God, but why would he say so in Latin?

I'm interested what you say about believing Toby leaked the story - now I couldn't get on board with that and had to believe what Schiff said about covering for someone, or I just didn't find it plausible. Though I think it does depend what you think of his character in general.

I also wonder if anyone ever thought Mandy and Josh were a real couple.

Dr Romano suffering two helicopter accidents in ER. One yes, two, totally implausible.

It always bothered me that Sam just disappeared from WW and no one ever thought to explain why he didn't come back. And then at the end, he was working in a big Law Firm, when there was no way Sam would be doing that if he had the option to return to his job.

And Green Wing - the most unhappy ending ever, where Mac rides off into the sunset after two series worth of build up. Boo!

Mmm, gotta say, I didn't miss Sam. But I know what you mean.

I did always find him one of the least convincing characters.

What I do find odd is how come he never hears from Laurie again? When he was so bothered about her?

I also don't get how come in Grey's Anatomy, no-one ever hears from Izzie or Burke again after they leave ...I know they pissed people off, but come on!

(I accept if we get onto the plausibility of Grey's Anatomy we'll never stop, but still ... some of it is annoying, some of it is not!)

tit - do tell me you've seen the special?! That's not how it ends!

Tit - agree. No way could Sam have gone back to a law firm, despite his protestations that he'd got the firm "to do things" - feeble at best. I know it was a set-up for the re-run of Josh coming to recruit him but they could have had him working pro bono somewhere or for a lowly Democrat congressman/woman.

I dunno ... Sam wasn't getting into politics before Josh recruited him. I think he's quite easily led - he must have spent ages accepting he'd do the legal work for the firm who wanted to use derelict tankers, or he'd not have known all the details. It only occurred to him late on to have ethical scruples.

I feel he's a character with a lot of light but not much heat - he gets very righteously angry but he doesn't really have ideas on his own. So I can see him going back to law because without Josh and the others, I don't think he'd have been thinking about political issues any more.

Agree about only fools wanted the happy ending :)
I would have liked carrie to end up with Aiden over big, and they never should have made the films!

Oh, god yes: the films of SATC were wrong.

Laurie, how would she have got into a law firm after that picture in the papers?

As for Toby, who could he have been covering for? Not CJ, it was clear she wasn't the leak. Toby wouldn't have put Bartlet in that position, it would have been an act of disloyalty Toby would never have committed. That's why I prefer to believe it was shoddy story-telling, focussing on Toby's grief and anger at his brother to make it plausible.

Mandy and Josh? Wrong on so many levels

Maybe his sister-in-law? Or someone we don't know about, but one of his brother's crew mates?

I don't know if Toby wouldn't have put Bartlett in that position - I find it surprising Bartlett was that unable to accept his decision was contentious.

Glad you agree about Mandy and Josh though. It is well known Josh belongs to me Donna.

I dunno, I watched the SATC again (before selling my boxset from 2001 on fleabay!) and Aidan wasn't as good as I remembered. A bit controlling and weird.
Plus Carrie was SO annoying I hoped she'd just be run over by that bus with her picture on.

Ally McBeal. Should have just stopped much much sooner.

Carrie is annoying. Was Aidan controlling?

I don't remember but then I was 15 at the time. I remember he was a bit wet.

Her Russian bloke was the really controlling one - I like the bit where she realizes he's a cock and just walks out. Very MN, really.

What do we reckon to Ashes to Ashes? I'm still quite cross they had such a wussy ending and such a very awkward kiss.

(Not cos I'm a pervert. Honest. )

Sam was an idealist, disenchanted by the world of corporate law. Talked of oratory:
"Oratory should raise your heart rate. Oratory should blow the doors off the
place."
Still don't think he'd have gone from being speechwriter to the president to being a legal hack. Rob Lowe wanted to leave and the leaving story was well thought out but the lack of return overlooked.

Sam was the one that they were suggesting would be president one day though. I thought there were a lot of silly inconsistencies, character-wise though. One day Ainsley Hayes was everywhere, working very closely with the WW staff and then she disappeared. And Rina - Toby's secretary disappeared too, with no explanation, after being quite prominent for a while.

Another Friends one - when they tried to get Rachel and Joey together! That was just so icky! Didn't like it one bit. It felt somehow incestuous even. Totally jumped the shark! Love that expression.

Agree about ER and doc Ramano - that was a bit Shit!

I've not seen all of The west wing seasons but didn't they quite often have characters that seemed to be big characters who then just faded away? Was it Mandy from the first series that just disappeared? And there was a blonde lady later on that seemed to do nothing as well after a lot of build up.

And, also, Toby would NEVER have leaked info like that. He was totally professional. Although it made me cry when the president signed his pardon right at the end.

Celtic - yes, I love that scene with the chess boards where Bartlet says to Sam, "You'll run for president one day" and Sam works out the Chinese/Taiwan situation.

I agree with you about Toby. Heard him on Radio 4 once and really wanted to give him a cuddle. That's a cuddle, not a hug.

Not a big Friends fan but think Pheobe should've chosen David over whats'is-name.

Oh, yes, I was sad about Rina. I liked her as a character and I liked how they had her talking to Toby about her daughter. Then she just went.

I have to say I find Sam being idealistic (eg mouthing off about oratory) a total turn-off. I can't take it seriously and want to pat him on the head and/or roll my eyes.