To be bored of the trans hate?

[DaisyUpsy]

Ok, there are extremists (like the punch people in the face person), extremists can be found in many areas of life but is anyone else fed up of the trans stuff constantly being dragged up?

I've seen some ridiculous statements on here recently. Everything gets something added related to trans when it's totally irrelevant. It's getting boring. Trans extremists are not the norm so can we stop pretending they are?

I am more interested in what happens in the real world than in fringe situations.

A few years back, using wrong sex pronouns for a man was a "fringe situation". Being called a uterus haver would be unheard of, because it's dehumanising.

It's not about transpeople getting pronouns as some kind of prize

Then why don't you call male rapists "she"?

What? I am talking about victims talking about their attackers in perhaps a court setting. This is not in any way the same as referring to a transwoman who does accounts at your work as she on the odd occasion that you need to.

I am also not telling anyone else how to speak. I was asked what I do about pronouns and responded with the way I behave.

@NewNameNigel

Here's someone who presumably uses different pronouns every day. And has been lauded for it

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6197705/amp/City-workers-hit-gender-fluid-banker-works-days-Philip-Pippa.html

I was talking about victims talking about their attackers in perhaps a court setting in the original post.

But I would say that it is common courtesy to refer to people in the way that they want to and I think rapists, trans or not forfeit the right to curtoresy, particularly from their victims.

@NewNameNigel

Why is a male who has committed a sexual assault and identifies as a woman a "he", and a male who simply goes into women's changing rooms and makes women uncomfortable just by that male's presence, violating their boundaries, a "she"?

Or have I got it wrong? I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from, given your earlier statements about "middle ground".

It’s fine if you speak the way you want to, of course it is

It becomes problematic when you say if you refuse to use correct pronouns you can expect cis in return

I refuse both and that’s fine. Especially since you’ve accepted biological reality underpins my thinking.

Sex is real, gender is bases on individuals perceptions.

Any compromises or meeting in the middle is taking us further away from what is real to something thats based on an ideology and an ideology thats not even clearly defined.

Its like that photo of eddie izzard in the queue for the womans toilets. In what way is he a woman? Is it his clothes, or his id, or that he feels it?

Is unclear what we are actually expected to negotiate with.

I actual know someone who changes their pronouns regularly. Not everyday, but in the 10 months or so, shes been through about 5 sets.

This article doesn't say anything about switching pronouns and uses he throughout.

Any compromises or meeting in the middle is taking us further away from what is real to something thats based on an ideology and an ideology thats not even clearly defined.

Its like that photo of eddie izzard in the queue for the womans toilets. In what way is he a woman? Is it his clothes, or his id, or that he feels it?

Is unclear what we are actually expected to negotiate with.

Yes. In what sense is Izzard a woman, or entitled to use the ladies'?

This article doesn't say anything about switching pronouns and uses he throughout.

I can promise you that person uses she when it suits them. Are you not familiar with Philip/Pips Bunce?

Who said anything about women's changing rooms? The transwomen I have worked with avoided changing rooms and anywhere that involved getting undressed in front of others because they felt too uncomfortable with the idea.

Why are you assuming that the people I am talking about are hanging around changing rooms?

I am talking about victims talking about their attackers in perhaps a court setting. This is not in any way the same as referring to a transwoman who does accounts at your work as she on the odd occasion that you need to.
What about if said attacker gets a job in accounts?

I am not. I have never seen them before. I would probably use they and be done with it.

How could you be unfamiliar with the Best Lady in Finance?!

With the victim? Well then I would hope the victim's employer would protect them as I would in any situation where someone was going to have to work with their attacker.

I don't think that the above scenario is a reason why I can't call a TW I work with she if I want to though.

Sorry I made a typo. It was a transwoman chest feeding. I didnt understand what they feed to babies.

The part-time woman, Pips Bunce - who was named as one of the top 100 Women in Business, despite being a man...

Who said anything about women's changing rooms? The transwomen I have worked with avoided changing rooms and anywhere that involved getting undressed in front of others because they felt too uncomfortable with the idea.

That's your experience, you seem unfamiliar with the experiences of many other women. Many of these experiences have happened to women on Mumsnet who have posted about them.

I am asking you about the difference. So would you call that male she or he? Do you think it's reasonable to expect women whose boundaries are violated by this male, to use female pronouns?

why I can't call a TW I work with she if I want to though

Who is telling you you can't? You do you.

You can do whatever you want to do.

Same as other women can do whatever they want to do...it's just when you dare to go against the ideology, that's when the harassment, arrests, sackings, bomb threats, death threats, kidnappings, barracadings, etc starts.

You'll be fine if you just do everything they say, no worries.

@NewNameNigel not with the victim but just in general

Just following because I'm interested to see if this thread gets shifted off to the naughty corner

yep

Do you think it's reasonable to expect women whose boundaries are violated by this male, to use female pronouns?

No and I wouldn't.

I guess this is where the nuance comes in. I don't have a blanket rule on pronoun use.
Are you struggling with the idea that I am not black and white on the issue in the way that you are?

I didnt understand what they feed to babies.

They take a cocktail of drugs to produce a milky substance known as galactorrhea. This is in some ways like breast milk, but it's not the same. It's much less nourishing for a baby and they don't produce enough.