To be bored of the trans hate?

[DaisyUpsy]

Ok, there are extremists (like the punch people in the face person), extremists can be found in many areas of life but is anyone else fed up of the trans stuff constantly being dragged up?

I've seen some ridiculous statements on here recently. Everything gets something added related to trans when it's totally irrelevant. It's getting boring. Trans extremists are not the norm so can we stop pretending they are?

I also mean that I might choose to work with (say) a known racist on issue x because we both want to see change y - but in doing so I'd have to consider what impact this might have on black women and how they might feel to see white sister work with a racist

You are not my sister if you think it's OK to throw black women under a bus by working with racists for any reason.

My post is based on the fact that if there are 10 people in a queue and the next available physician is someone who number 1 doesn't want to treat them they will see if number 2 is happy then number 3. The first person who will see this particular hcp will get seen first.

Yes I understand perfectly what you mean.

Which is that if a girl or woman requests to see a female HCP it is perfectly acceptable to present them with a transwomen HCP (who is male[ and then put them in the position (whilst possibly vulnerable / in pain / in distress / stressed[ of having to refuse the male HCP (whom they have already requested not to see[ and then make them wait for an indefinite amount of time to see the female HCP that they requested in the first place.

I think that is shocking.

Let me give you a concrete reason why.

My teenage DD was raped. She was 15 years old. She became pregnant as a result of that rape. She needed healthcare. She need STD tests, she needed a scan, she needed an abortion. She needed people to be very kind and gentle as she was in a state of enormous distress. She needed all of those things due to male violence. She also needed to see as few men as possible, espcecially if they were going to touch her or ask her anything. If at any of the many, stressfull and difficult appointments we had had we had been presented with a male HCP and expected to either pretend that person was female or have to wait longer for healthcare that was time sensitive I think my daughter would have had a complete breakdown. She was only just hanging on as it was.

As was I. I would have lost my shit if anyone had thought that that was in any way an acceptable way to treat us.

That poster said earlier on that tw are treated like black women used to be treated so either they do think men can become women or they do think black women are different, I wouldn't take anything they say seriously I think they are trying to upset people tbh.

It is very shocking to see the opinions about reasonable gc positions on here though. Actually unbelievable at times. How can people be so blinded by be kind?

Beachcomber
I am so sorry about your poor daughter.
I agree with every word you have said. No woman who has been raped should be forced to pretend that a man is a woman.
This is happening, not only in the NHS, but in rape crisis centres, counselling groups and other places that were previously single sex in order to protect the privacy and dignity of women and girls.
When you consider how many women and girls have been sexually assaulted, or subject to male violence, this ideology is shockingly abusive.
The women who support this ideology and not their fellow women and girls are, IMO, cruel beyond words.

I completely agree. I find it really upsetting

Ive hidden the feminist board because of it but now it's in aibu chat etc.

Mumsnet really need to stamp down on the trans phobia

Yes I understand perfectly what you mean.

You don't.
Which is that if a girl or woman requests to see a female HCP it is perfectly acceptable to present them with a transwomen HCP (who is male[ and then put them in the position (whilst possibly vulnerable / in pain / in distress / stressed[ of having to refuse the male HCP (whom they have already requested not to see[ and then make them wait for an indefinite amount of time to see the female HCP that they requested in the first place.

I wasn't commenting on the administrative process used to allocate queue place. I think that you should be able to request female only and that mean female. But in the real world this might mean you are seen less quickly than someone who didn't. I think women should have the option to request female only and those that don't mind should be able to have full access which might they are seen quicker.

My teenage DD was raped. She was 15 years old. She became pregnant as a result of that rape. She needed healthcare. She need STD tests, she needed a scan, she needed an abortion. She needed people to be very kind and gentle as she was in a state of enormous distress. She needed all of those things due to male violence. She also needed to see as few men as possible, espcecially if they were going to touch her or ask her anything. If at any of the many, stressfull and difficult appointments we had had we had been presented with a male HCP and expected to either pretendthat person was female or have to wait longer for healthcare that was time sensitive I think my daughter would have had a complete breakdown. She was only just hanging on as it was.

This is absolutely terrible. But I am not at all advocating for her to be seen by a transwoman, man, or anyone else she doesn't want to.

Quite me some.

You want women to be stamped down on for having a discussion about the facts of life on Mumsnet?

No I didn't. I said that if you don't know someone from a specific group it can be easy to make assumptions about them. I know this because people do this to me as a black woman. This is not me saying that transwomen and black women are the same. I am a black woman so you comment is very offensive.

Again you are putting words in my mouth and acscribing motivations that aren't there.

I am arguing for the GC position that women should be able to chose not to see a transwoman doctor for intimate procedures. You have just decided that I am not.

Hmm yes assumption that tw are men and have the same actually higher sexual offending pattern. Its not in any way unfair to tw to not want them in toilets or sports where men are not. Your whole premise is extremely offensive. And now you're making gc arguments when you were quite tra earlier.

“Stamp down on” - gosh, that’s rather violent imagery isn’t it?

How much we women are feared and hated, it’s so depressing in 2023.

Even on mn women are regularly deleted for saying things tra do not like. We've had to be very careful tiptoeing for years. A g p has only been allowed recently despite this being what started the whole thing years ago. And psychologists should know that! The research has always been there to know why.

What is my premise?
I am definitely not a TRA. You are arguing with me about positions that I don't hold.

Can you point is in the direction of some of this transphobia that still stands? And if it still stands have you reported the posts

I've known about it forever as I used to work in forensic psych. Sex offender research has absolutely loads of the trans stuff from the 50s up. Problem is now we define it as trans and not a variety of kinks / perversions we've decided to ignore all the research on e.g. sissification.

The women who support this ideology and not their fellow women and girls are, IMO, cruel beyond words

I agree.

No one is hating trans people. Everyone says you can present yourself however you like. It’s when presenting as something is being confused as being the something.

You can’t change sex is not trans hate. It’s a fact.

No. However you appear to be advocating for girls and women who will accept a male HCP who insists that they are female as female to get quicker treatment than those that can't or won't accept that.

It takes quite a while to organise and get an abortion. Many appointments, lots of waiting around. And all that time the girl or woman is in distress, having symptoms of pregnancy and in the knowledge that the intervention is best done as soon as possible.

How quickly that process happens should not be impacted by victims of male violence exercising their right to see female carers and to not adhere to a political ideology.

This thread's taken a turn that's made me deeply uncomfortable.

@Beachcomber - I'm like your daughter. I've been a victim of rape in the past, twice. I've also had invasive IVF treatment, have given birth, and have had more HCPs look up my foof than I care to count. A good number of those have been (chaperoned) male HCPs - I could not have coped with that in the immediate aftermath of my attack - and very good most of them were, too. It's never even occurred to me to mind.

Now I'm doing some soul-searching on whether, not having minded male HCPs giving me intimate exams, I'd mind the same from a trans woman. The honest answer to that question is 'yes'.

In my own mind I'm questioning why. Why, when I've always championed LGB rights (since way before the TQ), I've become what some people would happily dismiss as a 'transphobe'. The problem is, I've seen the inside of this 'debate' for too many years. I know that the men who clamour most loudly, and show most entitlement to be in a woman's space, including inside their bodies, are the ones who have least business being anywhere near a woman, not least a vulnerable patient.

If that's transphobia, I'll hold my hand up to it. Guilty. It's not a position with which I find myself comfortable, but it's my honest position nonetheless. I've suffered serious physical and sexual harm at the hands of men, and now the least I have the right to do is retain the right to my own physical boundaries and autonomy. But I'm asking myself how I, how WE, here. Shouting 'bigotry' won't cut it when the actions of aggressive activists have brought the likes of me, once a natural ally, to the position of all-out 'No Thank You'.

I'm not there to validate anyone's identity when I am myself in need of intimate care. Yes, I'm 'phobic' about the specific kind of biological male who pushes to insinuate themselves into my space. Saying 'no' to that in no way makes them more vulnerable than me. I'm the patient: it's my body. And I say 'No'.

I'm not advocating for it it's just a fact of numbers and the way queues work.

If you can explain to me a practical way that soneone can see a female HCP when there isn't one available then I'm all up for hearing it.

I think this is important enough to repeat.

For the record, I don't believe Nigel is saying that's how it should be, but its how it is, at the moment. Am I right, Nigel?

I'm so sorry to hear of everything that you have been through Serafinasgoose.

And I agree with your post and soul searching.

Especially what you say about men who push their way into female spaces and comfort zones as being the very last people who should be allowed anywhere near vulnerable girls and women.