Page 24 | To be bored of the trans hate?

DaisyUpsy · 2023-07-10T08:54:17+00:00

Ok, there are extremists (like the punch people in the face person), extremists can be found in many areas of life but is anyone else fed up of the trans stuff constantly being dragged up? I've seen some ridiculous statements on here recently. Everything gets something added related to trans when it's totally irrelevant. It's getting boring. Trans extremists are not the norm so can we stop pretending they are?

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 10/07/2023 15:16

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz
I'm gobsmacked so many posters think it's the same

Do you think it’s because breastfeeding and fetish has linked by anti trans posters themselves?

//

As in a biological man who claims to breast feed and at other times enjoys nipple play, may be a fetishist?

StefanosHill · 10/07/2023 15:16

NewNameNigel · 10/07/2023 15:11

I have never said it is.
A lot of assumptions are being made about it me because I disagree with some of the narrative.

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No it’s because you posted

Problem is both sides believe themselves to be the ones seeing reality

You can see only one side is reflecting biological reality. So why is the belief you talk about the same for you?

You give them the same weight even though you accept one is not reality

IAmSalmaFuckingHayek · 10/07/2023 15:16

Caramelatt · 10/07/2023 15:05

Apologies I am not well aware of this matter. Transmen chest feed? What do they feed?

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In this case a TW (so a man) with a known nipple fetish posted a photo of him “breastfeeding” a baby.

No such thing as chest feeding, you need breast tissue to produce milk.

Some are arguing that all humans can create milk. Others are pointing out that only women who have birthed a baby and have the correct hormones in their bodies naturally can safely breastfeed a baby.
The drugs needed to produce

AlisonDonut · 10/07/2023 15:17

pikkumyy77 · 10/07/2023 15:11

Thank you, OP, for posting this. I am not just bored of the trans hate here I’m horrified by it. I am a lifeling feminist myself and I have had to hide the entire feminism board here at mumsnet in order not to be depressed by the endless twi minutes hate and hysteria expressed—to the detriment of actual women’s issues like fair pay, health care, prison reform, children’s safety etc…

Hysterical women are the worst aren't they?

Random violent men in dresses, much more stable.

IAmSalmaFuckingHayek · 10/07/2023 15:19

IAmSalmaFuckingHayek · 10/07/2023 15:16

In this case a TW (so a man) with a known nipple fetish posted a photo of him “breastfeeding” a baby.

No such thing as chest feeding, you need breast tissue to produce milk.

Some are arguing that all humans can create milk. Others are pointing out that only women who have birthed a baby and have the correct hormones in their bodies naturally can safely breastfeed a baby.
The drugs needed to produce

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Shit, sorry!
The drugs needed to produce whatever untested fluid that apparently all humans could produce are contraindicated for this purpose as it can have health effects on the baby.
In cases where lactation has been medically induced there are no records of whether there is meaningful nutrition for the baby. It’s all about the adult, which is wrong.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 10/07/2023 15:20

pikkumyy77 · 10/07/2023 15:11

Thank you, OP, for posting this. I am not just bored of the trans hate here I’m horrified by it. I am a lifeling feminist myself and I have had to hide the entire feminism board here at mumsnet in order not to be depressed by the endless twi minutes hate and hysteria expressed—to the detriment of actual women’s issues like fair pay, health care, prison reform, children’s safety etc…

I'm getting REALLY bored of asking for examples of this trans hate so prevalent here.

GCSister · 10/07/2023 15:20

Hippyhippybake · 10/07/2023 15:02

Just want to say a huge huge thank you to all the fantastically smart women on here who are able to argue so clearly and compellingly for women’s rights. I hope you realise how many women stand firmly behind you.

I completely agree.
Thank you

LifeExperience · 10/07/2023 15:22

Disagreement is not hate.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:24

have never known anyone who changes pronouns day to day . Have you actually met anyone like this or is this just something you've seen on Tik Tok

I don't do Tiktok. I don't have any narcissists in my life at the current time, but obviously a situation where people are constantly walking on eggshells isn't an equal power dynamic.

And yes, there are people with all sorts of ridiculous pronoun arrangements. Are you completely unable to engage with the thought experiment?

SideWonder · 10/07/2023 15:25

—to the detriment of actual women’s issues like fair pay, health care, prison reform, children’s safety etc…

I'm a lifelong feminist (went to Women's Lib conferences back in the 70s, mobilised on various campaigns) and what I see is an erosion of those rights we fought for in the 1970s because MEN have decided to redefine what a woman is.

The gender extremist ideology is as simple as that.

If the definition of a woman changes from its reference to sex to that of gender, then all women's rights won on the basis of sex can be erased. And some weird Stepford wives stuff based on historically & culturally contingent stereotypes which oppress women will be reified into law & social practice.

That's why I fight gender extremist ideology and transactivism.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:25

guess a red line for me would be in cases where someone has inflicted male violence on someone and then insists that they are called she.

Can I ask why?

NewNameNigel · 10/07/2023 15:26

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:24

have never known anyone who changes pronouns day to day . Have you actually met anyone like this or is this just something you've seen on Tik Tok

I don't do Tiktok. I don't have any narcissists in my life at the current time, but obviously a situation where people are constantly walking on eggshells isn't an equal power dynamic.

And yes, there are people with all sorts of ridiculous pronoun arrangements. Are you completely unable to engage with the thought experiment?

I did engage with it in the sentence after you quoted ...

Bleepbloopbluurp · 10/07/2023 15:27

pikkumyy77 · 10/07/2023 15:11

Thank you, OP, for posting this. I am not just bored of the trans hate here I’m horrified by it. I am a lifeling feminist myself and I have had to hide the entire feminism board here at mumsnet in order not to be depressed by the endless twi minutes hate and hysteria expressed—to the detriment of actual women’s issues like fair pay, health care, prison reform, children’s safety etc…

Oh come off it.

If you were really concerned about fair play you'd want to be sure you could identify and address the gap. How do you do that when we don't know what a woman is?

If you were really worried about women in prison you'd be worried that they might be at risk from male identifying women, who seem very often to be sex offenders.

If you had any concern at all about children's safety you would understand that any ideology that results in basic safeguarding going out the window "because trans" is a huge problem for our children.

Does your "lifelong" feminism take any other form than tutting at women who actually bother to engage with issues?

JaneJeffer · 10/07/2023 15:28

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:25

guess a red line for me would be in cases where someone has inflicted male violence on someone and then insists that they are called she.

Can I ask why?

You what?

StefanosHill · 10/07/2023 15:28

NewNameNigel · 10/07/2023 14:58

Problem is both sides believe themselves to be the ones seeing reality.

Do you think it is actually possible to reach an end to this?
A state where everyone feels that they can live their life in the way they want to and feel respected and protected?

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On the second question women can keep their single sex spaces as the way to protect and respect their dignity

Males will have to find the solution within their own sex class, whatever that is

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:29

Yes, sorry, you did with the red lines question. But handwaved away the idea that people might have pronouns that frequently change. Pronoun bracelets used to be a thing, probably still are. Where you signal wordlessly to the unfortunate people who need to interact with you what you would prefer to be called today by the medium of colour.

NewNameNigel · 10/07/2023 15:30

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:25

guess a red line for me would be in cases where someone has inflicted male violence on someone and then insists that they are called she.

Can I ask why?

Because I don't think it's fair to expect victims of violence not to be able use language they feel fit to describe a traumatic event in their life.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:30

You what?

I'm trying to get to the logic of the poster's position on granting or not granting pronouns, @JaneJeffer

I don't believe in calling any male she and I refuse to.

JaneJeffer · 10/07/2023 15:31

pikkumyy77 · 10/07/2023 15:11

Thank you, OP, for posting this. I am not just bored of the trans hate here I’m horrified by it. I am a lifeling feminist myself and I have had to hide the entire feminism board here at mumsnet in order not to be depressed by the endless twi minutes hate and hysteria expressed—to the detriment of actual women’s issues like fair pay, health care, prison reform, children’s safety etc…

Is this supposed to be a joke? I can't tell anymore

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:32

Because I don't think it's fair to expect victims of violence not to be able use language they feel fit to describe a traumatic event in their life.

Well no, but unless you are the victim, it's not going to be the case for you, is it? So why do these particular trans people not get pronouns?

NewNameNigel · 10/07/2023 15:34

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:29

Yes, sorry, you did with the red lines question. But handwaved away the idea that people might have pronouns that frequently change. Pronoun bracelets used to be a thing, probably still are. Where you signal wordlessly to the unfortunate people who need to interact with you what you would prefer to be called today by the medium of colour.

I didn't. I said that I would expect them to wear a badge or something and I would do my best.
I also said I had never experienced something like this and I don't think it is at all common. If you or anyone here has done then I am prepared to be corrected.
I am more interested in what happens in the real world than in fringe situations.

As I do with most things in life I judge situations as I come across them and behave in a way that I deem appropriate to the situation. I am not sure why this is controversial.

JaneJeffer · 10/07/2023 15:34

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:30

You what?

I'm trying to get to the logic of the poster's position on granting or not granting pronouns, @JaneJeffer

I don't believe in calling any male she and I refuse to.

Ah, I realised what you meant after I posted

NewNameNigel · 10/07/2023 15:35

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/07/2023 15:32

Because I don't think it's fair to expect victims of violence not to be able use language they feel fit to describe a traumatic event in their life.

Well no, but unless you are the victim, it's not going to be the case for you, is it? So why do these particular trans people not get pronouns?

It's not about transpeople getting pronouns as some kind of prize and I don't really understand this framing.

JaneJeffer · 10/07/2023 15:35

@NewNameNigel and how do you identify these victims in a daily setting?

BoohooWoohoo · 10/07/2023 15:35

You can't be nuanced in this debate in the same way that you can with religion. What I mean is I am an atheist but accept that some believe in God and I would never have an argument about the existence of God because it can't be proved either way. Nobody religious has ever been horrified by my atheist viewpoint although I know that there will be extremists who think I will go straight to hell so will pray for my soul.
With gender people will say things like "Being GC is denying the existence of trans people " which does not make sense. I've never heard anyone say that 😆 Using my religion analogy, I've never heard that being an atheist means that I don't respect religious people. I am like the majority and think live and let live and that's the attitude that I've had from religious people which is absolutely fine.

The fact that standing up for women is being called transphobia is also batshit reasoning. Mumsnet is an easy target because it's mainly women but where is that aggression towards men? The sort of message boards with actual transphobia with behaviour like calling humans "it" and worse. Can it be that they know that men will tell them to fuck off?
If activists wanted the support of women then they would be fighting for third spaces instead of trying to take over women's spaces. Why do you think that they don't want third spaces? There's good reasons for women's spaces and just because you don't need those spaces, it is unfair not to support women who need those single sex spaces- it could be you needing them in future.