Could you explain the deletions for calling out racism please?

[paxillin]

Some, but not all perhaps harshly worded, but how else do you say racism is shit? I am talking about the deletions on the thread about the golliwog mugs.

Not sure how hard it is to understand you can disagree robustly without saying fuck off?

I have been deleted for challenging *isms without using "fuck off" or any other swear words (despite the fact they are accepted happily in other posts). So lets not pretend this is about swear words.

Despite the massive derailing attempts to block a discussion about the blatant racism on MN, I'm still wondering about any response to points raised by C8H10N4O2

This has to be the most incomprehensible thread I have ever read.......

I'm beginning to wonder if me-railing is in the spirit.

If someone challenges a comment robustly ("fuck off with the racism"/ "stop the gender stereotyping bollocks"); the post they responded to should be read, not just the reported post

I agree with this. However some confusion as 'fuck off' is sprinkled liberally throughout MN a la 'oh do fuck off dear...'. So what is the issue when same phrase is used to challenge a racist comment? It must surely be possible to give a short clear answer on this. Either fuck off is acceptable, or it isn't.

Not that I want racism to be deflected into fuck off or not as racists jump on anything to divert away from topic at hand - but on a pretty sweary site such as MN the t&g's make no sense to me unless it's to believed being selective comes into it somewhere; in which case, when is it appropriate to say, and when not...

Wide-eyed 'I don't understaaaaaand' racism incitement posts could be immediately binned alongside the regularly regurgitated Golliwog posts. Censoring responses to racism whilst leaving racist comments standing is dubious to say the least.

The op and others think it should be ok to break tgs to call someone out for racism and disablist, mnhq said not but to keep reporting offensive crap. Lots of examples were given. A quick derail into disablist language used elsewhere and if the excuse 'I didn't know' is ever ok and here we are.

No Janey, I think Bert was talking about this thread not some fiction from elsewhere

Do you not agree with things from one forum being discussed on another?

It is customary on MN to start one's own thread, not me-rail someone else's.

I agree Irvine needs to take the grievance elsewhere. It isn’t fair as it is.

@irvineoneohone i suggest either starting your own thread on here or contacting the Reddit mods as I don't see how your argument is relevant to the OP and a lot of posters may be unaware of the background as it crosses forums.

Unfortunately very valid questions are still being derailed by some disputed feud which may or may not involve the OP of this thread, and MNHQ can't be expected to comment on that

“No Janey, I think Bert was talking about this thread not some fiction from elsewhere”

Exactly.

@MNHQ

Despite attempts to derail this thread I'm still not clear on how to navigate the talk guidelines with respect to the following from my posts above where I said:

"As per my post upthread - common tropes of racism/disablism/*ism-of-your-choice are regularly trotted out on these threads. Sometimes I've seen the same yarn several times within a week in different places.

So I can report that post:

• You can't prove its a pack of lies, you are unlikely to delete it unless its a PBP and frankly its playing whack-a-mole sometimes
• If I tell the PP "bollocks" I get deleted for breaking TG
• If I say on thread that I think its a pack of lies I get deleted for troll hunting.

Net effect, *ist propaganda tropes are left to stand, implicitly approved by MN.
So how about where such issues are raised we are allowed to challenge the veracity/authenticity in public, just as the tropes are left to stand in public?"

I'd particularly highlight this delightful little number with many posts trying to say something blatantly racist isn't really racist:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a3255172-is-this-racism

And this delight combining racism and misogyny from one of the usual culprits, despite their name changes:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3255701-Meghan-Markle-wedding-photos-found-to-be-photoshopped?

Thank you for this, @MNHQ:

Message from MNHQ: Thread and OP both removed from site as racist.

That is not the point Janey, come on, you know it is not.

I don't think there was one deleted post before that thread went was there?

No deletions, but several suitably harsh replies, telling the OP exactly what people thought, no kid gloves. Replies that might have been deleted while the offender stood. And this time the call-outs stood, the offender went. Excellent result and great deletion message, too.

Nothing wrong with calling a racist cunt a racist cunt. Telling people they need to be more polite to racists is ridiculous.

Sighs. yes, 'suitably harsh' without 'fuck off racist cunt'. So, lesson learnt op you really can get your point across without overt insults. Thread's deleted. Sorted.

No lessons to learn, I have had perhaps a handful post deletions in all my time on MN. All but one of them for quoting what others have said.

I don't know why you are so keen to lecture me personally on how to do MN correctly whenever I say something on MN. I suspect we both want the same thing, MN to be a great place to hang out.

Site Stuff is the place to ask for changes; and sometimes they happen, I think they did in this case.

So, lesson learnt op you really can get your point across without overt insults. Thread's deleted. Sorted

Nope, I've still not seen a response to my and other's requests for clarification in this space.

I welcome the deletion of a long standing repeat offender. However the other threads raised here still stand as does the delightful thread justifying and trivialising mockery of Chinese ethnicity.

I've had posts deleted on these types of thread for challenging racism/disablism and questioning posts which trot out the trop of the week on social media week as if its personal experience. The *ist posts are usually left standing.

I've never sworn or been abusive apparently challenging *isms is considered troll hunting which advantages the bigots.

Hi C8H10N4O2,

Sorry for the delay.

You can strongly and robustly call out disablism and racism - we just ask that it's done with civil debate in mind and without personal attacks, which is something we apply to all subjects. If there are posts and threads that you think we've missed here, please do report those to us and we can revisit them.

So is it OK to post "That's sexist bollocks" or not? A post that said just that was deleted.