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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MNHQ here with an update on our recent moderation decisions

306 replies

KateMumsnet · 09/08/2017 13:44

Hi all

We thought we should come and address some of your recent points about our moderation, and particularly the worries you have about whether MNers have been taken in by a troll over the last few months, and how MNHQ has handled the issue.

Lots of you have probably missed our previous posts, so the plan is to bring everything together in one place and explain why we’ve been pretty firm about shutting down speculation on this case. We missed an opportunity to do so earlier and it’s led to lots of confusion - we’re very sorry about that, and we want to put it right now as far as we can.

So this is where we’re at: we don't have any evidence to suggest that a fraud has taken place, or that any MNers have been conned. As far as we can tell – and we have looked as carefully as we’ll ever be able to – the poster in question is the person he says he is: the father of a little boy whose mother has just died.

As we’ve said before, we can’t be 100% certain of anyone’s real life identity - it's simply not within our capabilities to know whether the person we’ve spoken to on the phone and via email and who’s been posting on the board is the same as the person of the same name and circumstances who exists elsewhere on the internet. What we do know is that we haven’t seen anything to suggest that money that kind Mumsnetters have donated has been misappropriated or misused - if we had, we would of course have involved the police.

Because MNers are understandably worried and upset, the idea has taken hold that wrongdoing has taken place. But, to be completely clear and to the best of our knowledge - it hasn’t. If you have evidence to the contrary, please get in touch with us immediately.

There have been deletions all over the shop on this - we know this must be incredibly frustrating and that loads of you still have questions and worries that you want to discuss. But we hope you’ll understand that we just can’t allow speculation or conjecture: the consequences if we do are too dreadful, for the family concerned on the one hand, but also for MNers, who are legally responsible for things they say on the boards which turn out to be unfounded.

Two posters have said on the board that they’ve received messages, off Mumsnet, which they felt were inappropriate and worrying - one of these posters reported this direct to MNHQ. We’ve been back to her, of course, but she's now told us definitively that she does not want to pursue it further and has de-regged. The conversation she describes did not take place on MN, and so there’s nowhere further that we can take that, unfortunately. We’ve of course been through the PMs on the account in question and there is nothing there that we’d characterise as harassment of any kind.

Despite all this, we suspended that individual’s account a few days ago, simply because we felt that his continued presence on MN was unlikely to do him, or MNers, any good.

We do see why the existence, for example, of a JustGiving board got people’s hackles up - but again, that’s quite a different thing from actual fraud of which we have zero evidence (and once again, please do bear in mind how serious an issue that would be, and that MNers are responsible for their own posts.)

What we really, really don’t want to do is to shut down discussion about the principles of the matter and our policies on this and other things - and when JustineMumsnet gets back from her break we’ll of course be debriefing her on the many points you’ve made (both on current and deleted threads, which we’ve been through with a fine tooth comb).

One thing that we’ve already done is to change our policy on links to crowdfunding/fundraising sites unless they benefit a registered charity - we agree that moving one of the threads in question to the Charities Noticeboard was a miss-step and that definitely won’t happen again.

We’re also looking really hard at what we say on the boards to reassure users who are worried about a potential troll - in retrospect, we shouldn’t have said that we’d gone above and beyond in checking this case out, because that implies that we can definitively validate any identity, and we can’t.

We really do want to hear what you think, and we listen hard to things that are pissing MNers off - recent examples are the changes underway on usernames1234 and the removal of the T-bar ad on mobile. We consistently turn down more ads than we take. We don’t and never ever will take money from tabloids for our content. We still put purpose before profit, and that’s not going to change - it's why a lot of the MN team have chosen to work at MN Towers. We do have to be sustainable - we’d all be out of a job otherwise - but it’s really worth having a look at the other place if you haven’t recently, to see what really chasing commercial gains looks like: it’s intrusive ads and a lot of sleb gossip.

We hope this helps to clarify our position a bit; do please do put your general thoughts here on this thread - we’ll be listening and we’ll try to help clarify anything that we haven’t covered here. Please do take on board what we’ve said about conjecture though - we’ll have to delete speculative posts if we see them here or if they’re reported on other threads.

Thanks

MNHQ

OP posts:
PicketsPocket · 09/08/2017 21:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ for trollhunting. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PicketsPocket · 09/08/2017 21:44

and you
unprofessionalism

Please start properly listening.

PicketsPocket · 09/08/2017 21:45

And that was NOT troll hunting. I'm done. That's another poster who's been here for nearly 10 years that you've lost.

KateMumsnet · 09/08/2017 21:48

We don't always give warnings - it takes quite a bit of time and that's time that could be spent helping other posters who need it. But posters can see, for eg, when they've been deleted - and in truth we think they should be able to translate that into 'oops, I'm on a shaky peg here'. Our experience is that people do usually know that they've been out of line - and the vast majority of posters have never been deleted or banned at all.

OP posts:
SoNouveau · 09/08/2017 21:50

Not troll hunting, just stating the bleeding obvious.
The poster she mentioned ticks ALL these boxes.

And this in response to PicketsPocket's post.
( fuck me that's a tongue twister)

In all honesty, we do have to be able to ban either temporarily or permanently posters who we think are making the place less of a pleasant place to be for other posters, or who are goady or inflammatory and won't stop - and sometimes, ones who we just don't think we're ever going to be able to make happy, because it conflicts with our other values or our need to keep MN a happy place overall.

NellieBuff · 09/08/2017 21:51

If I am honest MNHQ is not covering itself in glory at the moment. I am not talking about individuals but the general ethos generally being displayed and conveyed by MNHQ.

Feelings are running high - in time they will settle but acknowledging that feelings are important and noticed should be MNHQs priority.

PicketsPocket · 09/08/2017 21:55

Yes.

I've been deleted for stating a widely held opinion on a poster. What a pity you can't see that addressing the problem with that poster would solve the issue. Instead you shoot the messenger.

This place is a joke. You do realise that the companies who advertise on here are probably watching this play out? You are really not doing yourselves any favours by being so dismissive of us.

SerfTerf · 09/08/2017 21:57

@katemumsnet, we've opened room service. Can we get you a cocktail or some nurofen? Smile

JennyHolzersGhost · 09/08/2017 21:58

Righto well I'm sure you know your business best MNHQ. Good luck with it.

DaemonPantalaemon · 09/08/2017 21:59

Thank you so much Kate for such measured a post, and for facilitating an open and frank discussion about a matter that concerned so many of us.

PicketsPocket · 09/08/2017 22:04

Yep, I think I'll be off now.

I appreciate I already said that, but I wasn't going to go without responding to that ridiculous deletion.

Good luck for the future. I hear McDonalds is actually not suc a bad place to work. Probs be a good idea to dig out your Modding for Dummies pdq, because if I was Justine I'd be reeeeally pissed off with how this has all been handled.

KateMumsnet · 09/08/2017 22:06

Sorry you think that Picket - this does feel a bit off-topic though tbh and your post calling another named poster a fantasist really wasn't ever going to be allowed to stand.

Right, I hope the rest of it has been useful to clarify what's been going on over the last few days, and what we're taking away from it all as learnings to be discussed at MNHQ. As I said above, we're going to be going through all the points raised here and on the deleted threads to see what we can incorporate into the way we do things, or at least try out to see if they have a positive effect.

Everyone on the community team understands that the rules have changed about fundraising and crowdfunding, so please do report any instances you see (though bear in mind the fact that it will take a while to filter down to other posters so please go gently on them!).

And please, please - do report anything untoward. As you must all be very bored of hearing by now, it's the only way we get to know about things, so we really do need your help with this.

Thanks all, and good night.

OP posts:
Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 09/08/2017 22:09

Thanks Kate for your time.

I am glad to hear things will be reviewed.

It's maybe time to review the no email respond to reports thing as it seems to be causing issues

SussexMist · 09/08/2017 22:09

Holy Moly.....this has snowballed big styley...

[Gin] for all

PelorusJack · 09/08/2017 22:12

Thanks KateMumsnet. It's been useful and I think you've handled everything well.

PandorasXbox · 09/08/2017 22:13

You're bordering on bullying there Pickets.
Not that you'll be reading this of course.

Kate Wine

PantPlot · 09/08/2017 22:15

Dearie me, there really is no need to be so bloody rude.

The name calling and foot stamping covers no one in glory.

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/08/2017 22:20

Thank you Kate. I know feelings are running high but the sheer bloody rudeness of some posters towards MNHQ since this all kicked off has astonished me.

Sairelou · 09/08/2017 22:21

Thank you Kate, sorry you had to draw the short straw!

AgathaRaisonDetra · 09/08/2017 22:26

Hello Sussex Mist. Welcome.

SussexMist · 09/08/2017 22:30

Err ta. Have I stumbled across a battlefield?

PelorusJack · 09/08/2017 22:35

I suspect there is some updating of spreadsheets going on.... Grin

MadamePomfrey · 09/08/2017 22:39

I know this thread has got heated at times but I do think it has helped explain the other side of the story to people so thank you HQ. I have been lurking on a lot of these threads and it seems to me that the overriding issue seems to be people feeling they aren't being listened to. I understand the work load required for responding to all reports is too much, but what about regular (monthly for example) threads like this where users can interact more freely with HQ raise issues and concerns and hear your point of view on the issues, so hopefully things don't build up as much! I don't mean a open forum for accusing people of being trolls etc but where posters can raise general issues such as the charity issue or whatever is relevant at the time. I appreciate the HQ gin budget will need increasing for the Mods hosting the threads Gin but that just my 2 cents

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 09/08/2017 22:40

Well Pickets aren't you a delight Hmm

whereismyparachute · 09/08/2017 22:40

PicketsPocket is absolutely correct in calling out the fantasist and her behaviour over the last ten years. I will never understand why she has been allowed to bully whilst staying just within a hairs breadth of banning guidelines.