School's approach to UCAS - is this typical?

[GrumpyOldBag]

DS is in his last term at a well regarded independent school. We have generally been very happy with it, and he is happy there too.

However, the whole University Application process has been a bit of a mess and I am interested to know if this is typical.

Last year we were given no info by the school about Uni Open Days until the start of the Autumn term, so missed most of them last summer and had to catch up over half-term in October. I only became aware of the process through friends with kids at other schools talking about the visit they'd booked. (I've noticed they've now become more proactive about this though, so that's good)

The school was very slow to "sign-off" DS's UCAS form (review & check personal statement, that his choices were appropriate , etc) which culminated in my having to phone the teacher responsible on the last day of the deadline to chase it up - this after having sent several chaser emails in the preceding days/weeks. It was submitted it on the very last day of the deadline, although DS had done his personal statement & made his choices weeks before.

Going through the same process now to get DS to submit his offer acceptance & the deadline is next week! He made his decisions ages ago, but hasn't done it yet, and the school does not seem to be putting any pressure on him. Again, I am the one who is having to do all the chasing.

Now I accept that DS is 18 and an adult and needs to take responsibility himself. However, I also expect the school to have a process for ensuring these important things get done in a timely manner too. And DS has some special needs which mean he is not good at organising and managing himself like this - so I would expect some extra support from the school. Especially as we're paying a lot of money.

But maybe I have unrealistic expectations about this, and am prepared to be told I am?

Some of this is typical and some is not. There are well over 100 universities in this country and at my DDs mega expensive boarding schools we sorted out what open days they wanted in discussion with our DDs. Clearly they knew the type of university and possible courses so we could narrow it down. We didn't expect the school to spoon feed dates for open days but we did have a talk about university applications a short way into lower 6th so we were teed up regarding looking at open day dates. I was clued up about this already though.

Regarding UCAS application, no one at school cared a fig about which university once the subject was chosen! We talked Oxford over with staff but beyond that nothing. They may have raised an eyebrow if DD1 had put down Bucks New for insurance. DD1 had an October deadline for Oxford and DD2 had a early November deadline imposed by the school. Both met their deadlines without hassle from me. I would be surprised if your DS had a December/January deadline from the school because they don't want all the work at the last minute. Did he drag his feet so the staff dragged theirs? What happened in the Autumn term re getting all this done after half term in early November?

My DDs made their decisions about accepting or declining. Not the school. I think as he has special needs you really need to get on board with the process. I didn't expect the school to do anything other than look at the personal statements, write the references, send everything off and get them through the exams. DD2 spent hours putting together an art portfolio without much input from staff. We found out what the University wanted her to submit. You are asking for a lot of hand holding. Did the school not give timetables and expectations? Surely your DS knew other pupils were going to open days?

Lastly, I would not be confident he is ready for university if he needs this amount of reminding. I can see deadlines missed and problems all the way. With UCAS, you just press the buttons! Talk it over and do it!

Thanks bojoro

I wasn't expecting to be spoonfed dates of Open Days, and we worked it all out together with ds, but the school didn't even brief the parents that Open Days happened in June after exams! No one went to Open Days in my day, so didn't really know it was a thing and I think the school should have briefed us. DS did eventually mention that his friends were going to open days so DH & I took the day off work to take DS to the Oxford Open day (the only one we managed to get to in the Summer) and when we were there DS mentioned the school had organised a trip that week for interested pupils that he could have gone on! But by then we'd missed most of the others and had to go in October.

The school has given us no timetables or expectations - I have had to do it all myself either via google or asking DS - who can be quite vague and who's mantra is "Stop Worrying".

DS has also made all the decisions for himself on which offers to accept - and I know it is up to him to press the buttons, and it's easy, but my point is that no-one at the school seems to be checking it's being done. He could have done it ages ago, he had made the decisions. I am afraid of forgetting to keep reminding him as I have plenty of other stuff on my plate and I think this should be part of what you pay for.

Personal statement was all done on time in November, but had to chase & chase the school to get it all approved so the UCAS form could be submitted literally on the last day of the Autumn term.

I have always worked in the state sector and have found the sixth forms very on the ball when it comes to UCAS. Makes sense as a top factor in league tables is % going to Uni.

The UCAS deadline is actually in January so whilst it's not good he was kept dangling for ages, it was not submitted on the last possible day either. Regarding which to accept. I would only (as head of sixth form) expect to discuss this further if a student approached me for advice. Once they've made their initial six choices and received their offers it is really up to them what they choose to do (and UCAS send chaser emails if the deadlines are looming).

Your son's comment about the Oxford trip implies to me that he did get some input in school but didn't tell you about it. We have a parents' evening but many schools will take the view that going to uni is for the student to manage themself and that this is part of gaining the maturity and independence needed to get on once they get there.

DS has made his own decisions about which offers to accept.

The school's advice was on ensuring he had a good breadth on the initial 5 choices - that they weren't all pitched too high or low. In the end he got 4 offers.

And yes, he doesn't tell us everything he gets told at school - and that's one of the issues. I think they need to communicate some of this stuff to parents too.
And I get that he needs to show independence and maturity, but not all students are the same, he finds some of this challenging and I think the school should be looking out for them on this.

WIthout being too harsh Grumpy, regardless of what you are paying or not, it's part of your role as the parent to get clued up on this stuff. I wouldn't expect the school to sort it for me, or tell me what to do.

Having said that, my DC went to very good state schools and there was a lot of advice and support, if parents required it. But the school were pro-active and organised about everything so we were lucky.

I think that it bears out for me that at sixth form particularly you aren't necessarily getting anything extra from the independent system. Lots of DC round here leave private for state at 16, as the provision is better.

Agree with PP that if your DS is struggling with this level of independence, all the more reason for you to get organised, and/or consider whether he is ready for that step.

The info you require is quite easily available on line from the UCAS website (there is a parents' section, I think).

If I was paying mega bucks in fees, this is exactly the sort of thing I would think I was paying for.

Exactly SheilaHammond! I have done so out of necessity.

But I think that the school should also take responsibility too. I am glad the state sector seems to do better on this than the private sector, and wonder why I'm bothering to pay.

I think DS will be fine at Uni. he is quite capable of being organised if he wants to - for example he can organise a 6-hour train journey requiring 3 different changes halfway across the country to see his football team play. But as he has mild Aspergers he can only really focus on one thing at a time.

Thanks BertrandRussell that is what I mean!!

I think that it is parents' responsibility to sort out Open Day visits.

Yes, BoboChic, I accept it's my/our responsibility to organise the visits.

But I can't do that if I don't know I'm supposed to do it - the point is we had no communication from the school saying "Open days take place after the exams in the Summer Term & you need to book in advance for the most popular ones."

Hence we missed most of them. Open days weren't a thing in my day.

I just don't think we should be expected to know this stuff automatically and the school should offer a bit of guidance. Especially if you are paying.

"I think that it is parents' responsibility to sort out Open Day visits."

Why? Private schools provide a service. If that service isn't up to scratch you should complain.

Honestly Grumpy!!! Neither were open days a thing in many parents' days but you get clued up. No-one asked my DDs if they had sorted it out. Surely you could have looked on the web sites of some universities and seen the open day adverts? If you were interested in Oxford, why did you not look into how and when to apply for an open day? At school my DDs talked to their friends about which universities they were going to visit. He must have known what others were doing but decided not to bother. Did you not have any guide to the 6th form when he started? Is it online?

Bertrand is wrong and she hasn't had children at independent school. Handholding really is not what you pay for! The opposite really. I paid for a broad education, confidence, and independence! I expect my children to think for themselves. The state schools mollycoddle so much more. Top Independent schools usually have a different culture and high expectations of the individual. I can't see the girls at St Pauls or Wycombe Abbey not knowing about open days! Who would leave them for a comp?

You shouldn't be expected to know everything automatically, but you can look into it yourself. My DD is the same age. I found out most of the information from MN and the UCAS web site.

The school sent us some bumph explaining the process at the end of Y12, but that was it. However, the students themselves received a lot of input about uni applications at the end of Y12 and beginning of Y13.

Bertrand - why do you think fees at a private school include sorting out visiting open days? Parents don't absolve themselves of all responsibility by paying. My local state grammar schools put on a coach for a few popular universities but they have huge 6th forms with a total of around 450 pupils in each year of the 6th forms. Our smallish school had a handful visiting each university. I know the boys from Harrow went to a lot of open days by train and sorted it out themselves. They have the independence and confidence to do it.

Do other parents feel the same way? Surely it depends on what your "contract" with the school is?

If execution is an issue, most things can be delegated. Could you not have hired someone to get this stuff right "automatically"?

Open Day practices vary and often depend on what the institution in question feels like doing for that year; there are no rules. Most places will agree to special visits, within reason, even if they say they won't.

As for deadlines, schools can only work on the basis that UCAS candidates have enough motivation to meet them... again if its critical, it must be possible to hire someone to project manage, or generally organise one's life as needed. Through school, university, and beyond. As you, I have seen many many people with disabilities who perform exceptionally despite them when it's important enough.

It is never unrealistic to expect a school to deliver what it has agreed to, whether you pay or the state pays. However I'm not entirely clear what a school can be expected to do in these circumstances.

the point is we had no communication from the school saying "Open days take place after the exams in the Summer Term & you need to book in advance for the most popular ones."

Seriously? That sounds pretty pathetic I'm afraid. It would have taken you or your son about 5 minutes to find that information. I'm not sure you can blame anyone but yourselves for not thinking about it at all. And there are plenty of autumn open days anyway.

(Btw I certainly went on open days in 1987! They've existed for a while )

My kids' schools sent messages about this time of year saying only 3 school days allowed off for open days, so I suppose that was a clue! They were very efficient with UCAS forms. But it's entirely the pupil's responsibility to actually accept the offers, I don't think that it's a school's job to be nagging them.

The school sent us some bumph explaining the process at the end of Y12, but that was it.

That's my point aginghippy. My ds's school didn't do that.

I did all the research myself, eventually, but missed out on the first round of Open Days because I didn't know when they were until too late. I work hard and run my own business, or I wouldn't be able to afford the school fees, and can't keep on top of everything. I had no idea of the timetable and that it all kicks off in Lower 6th. I would have expected some minimal guidance from my son's school.

Don't most schools both State and Independent have a UCAS
co ordinator on their staff? My DCs have gone to very different schools but all had talks on the UCAS process and arranged trips to some Unis and allowed time off for others. All my DCs did however do their own research, request prospectuses and arrange visit days themselves. Ds3 who is going through the process this year constantly got emails and letters from the Unis he had shown an interest in about Open Days and Offer Holder Days and from UCAs too about dates and deadlines.

AtiaoftheJulii I am older than you. It did take about 5 minutes to find out the info - when I knew to look for it.

Of course I had a notion there were open days he would need to go to at some point, but I guess I thought i could rely on a school which is excellent in all other respects to give us a small amount of guidance on when that happens. They didn't even bother to explain the UCAS application process either!

I don't think you can/should take these things for granted but obviously I'm in the minority on this.

I am so sorry but it does seem rathernthat you expected to be spoon fed.

I don't know of any school I have worked in who told parents when Open Days were. Judging by your DS telling you others were going on Open Days it seems other parents knew what to do. Did you do any research?

With regards to the UCAS application, you do seem to change your story. You say you had to chase for weeks and weeks / Days (which was it) for the last day of the deadline but then you later say he did it by November and the school finished the application by the last day of December (being a private school was this 16th December or near abouts? So it wasn't he final deadline, which was a month later.

It takes two to three weeks to finalise a UCAS application. The Personal Statement is then checked by three people including Head. The reference is checked by three people including the Head. The actual application is checked by five people including finance and support staff. This takes time with many applications and normal day to day jobs. It's not just a case of pressing Submit.

With his offer and acceptance, your DS has had months to do this and no, I don't know of any school who has had to actually tell parents you need to accept or decline an offer. It's all there on UCAS!!!

I really don't think that you do accept your DS is an adult at 18 and expect him to have responsibility for himself. Your entire thread suggests he still needs to be spoon fed and this is the problem universities are having to deal with, in regards to their students who rely on parents and 'teachers' to do everything for them

And surely the point is that if I, a well-educated, confident and assertive person, can't get it right, then there must be other parents too who aren't on top of this stuff. And a good school shouldn't assume that we do.

Or am I the only one. A total failure as a parent, as people on Mumsnet often like to tell me ...

Kitty did you miss the bit where I said DS has Aspergers?