School's approach to UCAS - is this typical?

[GrumpyOldBag]

DS is in his last term at a well regarded independent school. We have generally been very happy with it, and he is happy there too.

However, the whole University Application process has been a bit of a mess and I am interested to know if this is typical.

Last year we were given no info by the school about Uni Open Days until the start of the Autumn term, so missed most of them last summer and had to catch up over half-term in October. I only became aware of the process through friends with kids at other schools talking about the visit they'd booked. (I've noticed they've now become more proactive about this though, so that's good)

The school was very slow to "sign-off" DS's UCAS form (review & check personal statement, that his choices were appropriate , etc) which culminated in my having to phone the teacher responsible on the last day of the deadline to chase it up - this after having sent several chaser emails in the preceding days/weeks. It was submitted it on the very last day of the deadline, although DS had done his personal statement & made his choices weeks before.

Going through the same process now to get DS to submit his offer acceptance & the deadline is next week! He made his decisions ages ago, but hasn't done it yet, and the school does not seem to be putting any pressure on him. Again, I am the one who is having to do all the chasing.

Now I accept that DS is 18 and an adult and needs to take responsibility himself. However, I also expect the school to have a process for ensuring these important things get done in a timely manner too. And DS has some special needs which mean he is not good at organising and managing himself like this - so I would expect some extra support from the school. Especially as we're paying a lot of money.

But maybe I have unrealistic expectations about this, and am prepared to be told I am?

I really don't think parents attending limit the value of open days.

I say that as parent and lecturer.

Parents funding university would be wise to see what's on offer. It's a huge investment. 17 year olds taking out massive loans could well do with an adult perspective. The unaccompanied ones, often ask nothing or they ask current students what the night life is like .

"That's my point. Instructing parents about university and open days and applications etc isn't really school's responsibility."

Of course it is. Particularly if you want to broaden participation at all.........

I don't see why parents going to open days is such a bad thing. Why would a child not want to discuss such a big decision with their parents?

They're 6th formers. They're young adults. Unless there's other arrangements in place to support those who have additional needs it's for the STUDENTS to tell their parents.

If you have a child of that age, you know uni is coming up so you do the adult thing and find out about it.

Just like you find out about nurseries, primary school etc. Or should someone hold classes saying "there there, this is a letter telling you that you child might be starting nursery".

I don't see why parents going to open days is such a bad thing.

The descriptions coming back from my kids when attending was that the parents dominated the discussion and the Q&A.

When I went on open days we were groups of prospective students only and felt free to ask whatever we wanted (esp of the student guides). I don't think we would have felt quite so free with parents present. I completely changed my view on where I wanted to go based on what I discovered on these visits.

Why would a child not want to discuss such a big decision with their parents?

Oh I don't disagree with that - we discussed the pros and cons and costs with our children at length but we did that at home rather than on site where they were supposed to be getting a feel for the place themselves and be able to ask about other aspects. To me it seemed the whole object of the day was hijacked.

Yes, that's what us clued up Mumsnet type parents do. That's one of the many privileges most of our children have.

Outside the bubble, many other children have to rely on their schools for that.

C8 I think your DC may have exaggerated.

The academic sessions are usually a lecture style talk, with slides. The university rep speaks for 30-50 mins. The audience listens.

The Q&A is a bit tacked on at the end. It is very rare that any question ( from applicant or parent) is terribly penetrating . Every year I threaten to have tee shirts printed for my colleagues and I - check the fucking website.

Visits to the library, accommodation etc are more informal.

I think (from reading many, many open day threads on here!) that about ten years ago was when numbers of parents attending suddenly increased. I think the universities are now very aware of parents being there, try to separate them off, and don't let them dominate. It's a vicious circle though C8 - if everyone else is in parent-child dyads, it's going to be a boring day for you by yourself (as my dd found), so you take a parent to the next one.

I think lots of families make a really nice day out of it.

We went together 2 DC, 2 parents. Had a laugh and usually a lovely lunch or supper somewhere. I even took my mum to Warwick ( she happened to be visiting that weekend). She loved it.

DS's only priority at the moment is his revision.

Well if he doesn't pay attention to the university application process it won't count for much.

I have to confess that I did think the massive family day outs with grandparents are pretty OTT! And annoying when you want to get into some of the talks/tours with a smaller capacity.

Thanks DisappearingFish

Did you miss my updates, or just choose to ignore them ?

I don't think you can expect schools to be letting you know about all the open days. There are some which are just open days, some subject specific days, for my daughter who was doing a traditionally more masculine subject there were spec women in whatever days. With all the unis, is it about 100? plus all the subject combinations I don't think it is practical.

At my kids school there was information available in the 6th form centre and with mine they looked up unis and courses on line. I went to some open days with my daughter, my 3 sons all went to all the open days by themselves or with friends and they certainly didn't want mum there.

Perhaps you son had access to info at school and didn't use it/pass it on to you due to his special needs? Or maybe he wasn't sure he wanted to go or take a year out. My sons all took a gap year, typical laid back boys.

No, didn't miss them. Have your son's priorities changed since 10.13am this morning?

When we finally did get organised for Open Days one or other parent went to 5 with DS, and he went to one on his own. One involved a plane trip & we treated it as a family weekend away.

The Oxford one was lovely, really interesting lectures, and I cooed over the beautiful gardens at Worcester College. DS was resolutely unimpressed & decided not to apply.

I'm really glad he had a parent with him at the ones we went to - because he is shy & lacks communication skills he went to experience more things at those because he was with us & we nudged him. And I was really glad to go with him to the Uni which is now his first choice as I had never been there and hadn't expected to like it, but it was clear from the first minute we arrived that DS loved it and he really clicked with the subject professor giving the talk.

We found that the ones we went to made a lot of effort to separate the students from their parents for many of the sessions which seemed like a good way to do it.

Oh we didn't all go to the talks.
DD went to her subject, DS went to his. Grandma just had a nice wander.

Most universities give preference to applicants in oversubscribed talks.

Briefly, as the UCAS manager at a private college:

• I run a UCAS day with my students at the end of L6 which includes a session on researching uni choices and do encourage the kids to attend open days over the summer if possible to avoid taking days off school in the autumn term. I leave it up to the students themselves if they want to arrange it with parents to attend the open day at x university
• Unless they're applying for a 15 Oct course, most forms go off mid Oct to end of term. If there is a delay it is mostly because students are still mulling over their choices. It is much better to submit a well considered form than a rushed one. If the form was 100% complete from his side, it could have been the sheer number of forms queued up ahead of him, depending on how many final year students there are.

-Regards making the firm/insurance choice by May, I send my students reminder emails but cannot do it for them. I also encourage them to pop and see me to see if their two choices make sense, to to speak, but sometimes they ignore that advice.

C8 I think your DC may have exaggerated.

Oh this is entirely possible . However for the day I was present working in cafe it fitted what I saw. Parents and children together rather than the prospective students together - I remember learning a lot from my peers on those days as well. It is also consistent with reports from other offspring less prone to exaggerate.

Thinking back I did also snoop in one other open day - different child but open day for my old place and whilst she went off for the open day I did snoop a bit around my old stamping ground.

There was one place which tried to split the parents from the children for separate sessions (which may be the best compromise) although some parents promptly split with one going to parent session and the other following the child.

As you say - so much info is on websites these days that most parental questions can be answered there. I just feel its really important that the child gets a good feel for the place, the students etc and I'm glad my parents let me do it alone.

DisappearingFish at 09.11 I wrote:

"Last night DS finally pressed SEND on his acceptances, and we had a chat about not ignoring important emails, and all he needs to does forward them to me and I'll help him deal with them. And we've made a checklist of things to do this long weekend, as well as his revision."

I'm just another overstretched Mum trying to do the best for her son who has communication difficulties, why do you want to make me feel like shit?

My daughter went to a specific open day for women in science day (was a specific subject) It wasn't open to parents but one father decided to attend. It was a full day, talks, tours, sample lectures. My daughter who is generally a quiet non violent sort of person wanted to kill that father by the end of the day. Apparently he never shut up from start to finish, staff tried to get him to leave at coffee break and lunch and short of calling security couldn't manage it. I suppose it would have been upsetting for his daughter if they had him arrested. No wonder some kids don't want parents to attend.

C8 - if everyone else is in parent-child dyads, it's going to be a boring day for you by yourself (as my dd found), so you take a parent to the next one.

Yes I can imagine that - i just think its a shame. Mine generally found someone else from their school or other group was going and hooked up with them. One other thing I remember their school doing was proactively putting them in touch with past pupils at the same University (and they in turn met up with prospective students in later years).

Thinking on it that school former pupil contact was really valuable in helping them break out of the crocodile between sessions. I don't know if all schools do this but it certainly was useful (bog standard comp btw, nothing fancy about it!)

C8 you need to keep in mind that universities are not daft. Oodles of cash is spent by the marketing bods ensuring that 17 year olds get the right feelz.

I just can't think of any other situation where a 17 year old suggests borrowing sixty grand and a parent wouldn't reply 'let's have a look then'.

My daughter went to a specific open day for women in science day (was a specific subject) It wasn't open to parents but one father decided to attend.

To be honest I'd have hoped the University told him it was for young women and not parents and (politely) offered him use of the student cafe whilst he waited. I would have wanted to kill him as well!

Edinburgh had this amazing system of detaching the parents from the kids for one session. I still don't know how they did it, but one minute we were all walking together down a corridor, and the next all the parents were in one room with cups of tea and all the kids were in another with lots of current students to talk to....

I just can't think of any other situation where a 17 year old suggests borrowing sixty grand and a parent wouldn't reply 'let's have a look then'.

But does it have to be in person and during the same session? (would be interested to know if your organisation has tried this and how it worked).
And yes I'm sure marketing are out in force, which is partly why mine valued grabbing time with actual students where possible who were not carefully selected.