School's approach to UCAS - is this typical?

[GrumpyOldBag]

DS is in his last term at a well regarded independent school. We have generally been very happy with it, and he is happy there too.

However, the whole University Application process has been a bit of a mess and I am interested to know if this is typical.

Last year we were given no info by the school about Uni Open Days until the start of the Autumn term, so missed most of them last summer and had to catch up over half-term in October. I only became aware of the process through friends with kids at other schools talking about the visit they'd booked. (I've noticed they've now become more proactive about this though, so that's good)

The school was very slow to "sign-off" DS's UCAS form (review & check personal statement, that his choices were appropriate , etc) which culminated in my having to phone the teacher responsible on the last day of the deadline to chase it up - this after having sent several chaser emails in the preceding days/weeks. It was submitted it on the very last day of the deadline, although DS had done his personal statement & made his choices weeks before.

Going through the same process now to get DS to submit his offer acceptance & the deadline is next week! He made his decisions ages ago, but hasn't done it yet, and the school does not seem to be putting any pressure on him. Again, I am the one who is having to do all the chasing.

Now I accept that DS is 18 and an adult and needs to take responsibility himself. However, I also expect the school to have a process for ensuring these important things get done in a timely manner too. And DS has some special needs which mean he is not good at organising and managing himself like this - so I would expect some extra support from the school. Especially as we're paying a lot of money.

But maybe I have unrealistic expectations about this, and am prepared to be told I am?

Edinburgh had this amazing system of detaching the parents from the kids for one session

That sounds like a much better compromise. Was talking to one of said offspring about this thread this morning. Her view was that most of the attending parents had been to university themselves whereas I was guessing it was mostly those for whom it was new. I don't know if that is the norm.

C8, my daughter said they did repeatedly and asked him to be quiet. To be honest I felt terribly sorry for his daughter, she must have been mortified. I think there was quite of group of possible assassins by the end of the day.

It was really unfortunate because it was the university she was keenest on and she got an offer but after that day she went off it a bit and ended up choosing to accept offers from two other unis. She got her first choice and it worked well but it just shows how parents can be a liability.

She went to a uni that is highly regarded for her subject but one of the things that influenced her was that she enjoyed the open day so , she thought the students showing them round were really positive and friendly. In fact her insurance choice was very similar, she couldn't stop talking about the different tips the students were giving them. When she went to uni she had a paid job showing students round and in her final year was one of the student organisers for open days so hopefully she passed that on.

I just had a deja vu moment about student finance, 4 kids 2 doing 3 years 2 doing 4 years, such a relief when it was over. I never, ever want to fill in a student finance form again.

OP sincerely that was not my intention. I'm glad you are both back on track.

The reality of life at university is having to manage a lot of conflicting priorities. And there is a lot of admin for your DS to be on top of before he gets there. No one else can do it for him.

Granny one of the things that influenced her was that she enjoyed the open day

Yes I would say the same which is probably why I feel so strongly about it. I would have made the wrong choice without those sessions and particularly the time I spent with the students.

Ah yes student finance forms, how I don't miss them!

Outside the bubble, many other children have to rely on their schools for that.
And schools DO teach the students about it.
I'm not saying that parents should do everything to do with uni. I'm saying that schools work with children, including those who wouldn't normally consider uni.

We do all kinds of things for our students in preparation for university but we don't do letters out telling parents, evenings for parents. We do a bloody good job of getting kids into uni with many going to top universities.

Here's my thing. It's the job of parents to clue themselves up. It is the job of schools to inform the children. We shouldn't be expected to go through everything twice, once for students and again for parents.

We shouldn't be expected to go through everything twice, once for students and again for parents.

A link to the same PP used for children in the assembly would do. I've yet to go school-side for some kind of parent briefing that wasn't:

a) A replica of what the children got.
b) Told me anything I couldn't read on the screen.
c) A bit patronising.

Perhaps it's just here?

I went to the events for parents and was the taxi due to where we live. DH went to nothing. At the finance meetings for parents is where you find out about finance. Subject events are for prospective students and parents should not be there or take a back seat. If any parent has been to 5 open days and not attended a single finance event then time has been misused! However it is easy to get up to speed on Finance via Finance England. Even if parents attend the autumn term open days it is still easy to draw up a timetable regarding finance, accommodation and tweak the PS.

I found parents and some prospective students to be most obnoxious and annoying at Oxford! I think the parental role is to act as a sounding board and discuss the day. There is no great need to be there but it can be helpful for some young people. When I wasn't required I went shopping!

Regarding clicking with a professor- an undergrad will be lucky to see them again! Few profs teach undergrads and if you don't choose their options, they are not very visible. In 3 years, my DD was taught by one and DD thought she was very odd and didn't like students.

Thanks DisappearingFish. I know, and am doing my best to equip my son with the skills he is going to need. And am very grateful for the Mumsnet network to help me fill in my own gaps & deficiencies.

Just caught up with this thread - sounds like he's nicely on track now and if he forwards emails to you that will help. It seems that although you might have appreciated a bit more guidance upfront from the school, its all working out ok now.

A phrase upthread caught my eye, as my own motivating mantra when I'm procrastinating over a task which I don't want to do e.g. tax return is: 'no one else can do this for me' - maybe a useful one to pass on to some of our kids? But there will be others who do still need that bit more support - and that's fine too. There's no right and wrong way on something like open days, just what suits your DC and you.

Wow bojorojo you seem determined to undermine everything I say!

I hope I wasn't obnoxious and annoying at Oxford. DH & I certainly tried to take a back seat and let DS direct the day. We did insist he took a student guided tour of 1 old & 1 modern college which he hadn't wanted to do - and it turned out the student who took him round was studying the same subject as DS and supported the same football team which I think was hugely reassuring for DS.

As for the point about never seeing the professor again - so what? It gives a flavour of the character of the place and general teaching style if nothing else. Otherwise what's the point of going at all, how else are you supposed to judge whether you would fit in and be happy at a place?

Grumpy some people on these threads like to use them to make a point about their DCs being so super-clever and super-independent and that their parenting is so much better than everyone else's. I wouldn't take it personally. It comes up predictably every time.

There's also always one who hiked 10 miles in the driving rain without any shoes to get to their open day and was left to their own devices the second they shot out of the womb.

peripericardium - I always felt bad about after reading threads where posters have confident, together dcs. But, just because a dc can find their way to an open day and has done oodles of research and knows which subject they wanted to study since they were a foetus... does not make them any cleverer than the dolt who regularly gets lost, is disorganised and is shy and awkward to boot.

I was incredibly trepidatious about going to an Oxford open day after reading on here they were full of pushy parents, with braying dads in red trousers dominating everything. It wasn't like that at all! Everyone was very nice, and at one college ds went off to have a talk with a professor and I had a rather nice (free!) lunch with some other prospective parents.

And there were no big family groups only lone mums and dads. I enjoyed the day. Shame ds had a meltdown in Turl St and said he hated everywhere!

Few profs teach undergrads and if you don't choose their options, they are not very visible.

This is factually incorrect in multiple ways.

Nowadays many/most academics will progress to become professors - unlike 20 years ago when professors were very much in the minority. At Oxford most academics become professors by their 40s.

Oxford does not usually let professors use research grants to buy themselves completely out of teaching - if this were allowed, there would be pretty much nobody left to teach.

It does vary by subject but in my own department every professor (including me) has to teach undergraduates.

I am not totally hands off (my children would probably laugh at that) and my children are not super clever! However, if you click with an individual who gives a presentation and you base your choice on that, it can be a massive disappoint to find you never see them again or they are doing a talk with all bells and whistles for open day. I don't see it as undermining your position, OP, but you have said you didn't attend finance talks and went to subject talks so didn't take the opportunity to get up to speed with finance when you could have done.

The obnoxious and annoying are the people as described in other posts. Constantly going on about the nuances of the course, indicating they or their offspring are ridiculously bright (are my 6 A levels the right ones?) and generally hogging the conversation. If you did t do any of this, you would t be noticed!

I am glad your DS has made a decision and you can now discuss with him about accommodation (a whole new thread?) and finance. My DH is super busy and didn't come to anything with DD1. I shamed him into taking some notice with DD2. Even the super busy can spend a few hours helping.

My DH went to lots of open days with DD, plus me to a few - and we didn't go to any finance talks at all. The focus was all on dept tours and talks (facilities maybe esp important for eng. and sciences), and accommodation. The thing is, he knew he could find out what he needed from the internet - there's nothing specific to each uni about finance- so from our POV that would have been the waste of time. As it turned out, dd's subject was one which has interviews, everywhere except cambridge did separate tours for any accompanying parents and some did a finance talk then. I get the impression they didn't really tell him much he hadn't already picked up.

ErrolTheDragon that was our experience/view too. I knew DS would only qualify for the minimum maintenance loan anyway, and it would be the same wherever he goes. Every Open Day we went to we were pushed for time to fit in everything we wanted to do/see - so why waste time on something we could have picked up simply elsewhere.

I had the classic parent on an applicant visit a few weeks ago. Typed list of questions, one of which was disputing whether we were asking for the correct A-levels. It turns out he separately managed to corner three members of staff and painstakingly went through his list with all of us. His son looked mortified. Most parents are great, we do have a session with just applicants and current student, sometimes the parents have separation anxiety but we never give in and let them stay with the students.

Blimey. Correction to my statement that there's no right or wrong way to do open days etc - I'm sure everyone on the thread would agree that was the wrong way, breaking the First Law of parenting teens: 'Thou shalt not be embarrassing'.

Which is tricky because the Second Law is that you are always embarrassing

so why waste time on something we could have picked up simply elsewhere

Because then you would have known that your son needs to apply for Student Finance now!

too true Atia ...

It's research you have to do yourself. I remember getting about 15 prospectuses of unis I was interested in (although internet is probably just as good today!). I researched the courses I was able to get grades for and then narrowed it down to 6. My parents and I found out the open days for those 6 and went to my top 3 choices.

My school seemed to hand things to UCAS on time. I went to a private school btw.

Oh and to the pp who said it's what you expect if you're paying "mega bucks"... paid schooling doesn't absolve a parent from doing the bare bones of looking into appropriate uni courses with their child.

You may have to teach undergrads at Oxford, as a Professor, but my DD was taught be one - in three years. Not that she went to a sample lecture, as far as I recall because I was shopping for most of the day, and if that one had taken it, she would probably have run a mile never to set foot at the university again! However, I understand she met some enthusiastic, welcoming and happy young lecturers who were on her wavelength and she on theirs!

Grumpy - you did say on page 3 'Student Finance? What fresh hell is this?" Now it appears, all along, you knew about student finance and that your DS would get the minimum loan! A few porkies creeping in now or is the whole story that the school did not hold your hand rather over-stated too? Beginning to wonder if this is a wind-up!