School's approach to UCAS - is this typical?

[GrumpyOldBag]

DS is in his last term at a well regarded independent school. We have generally been very happy with it, and he is happy there too.

However, the whole University Application process has been a bit of a mess and I am interested to know if this is typical.

Last year we were given no info by the school about Uni Open Days until the start of the Autumn term, so missed most of them last summer and had to catch up over half-term in October. I only became aware of the process through friends with kids at other schools talking about the visit they'd booked. (I've noticed they've now become more proactive about this though, so that's good)

The school was very slow to "sign-off" DS's UCAS form (review & check personal statement, that his choices were appropriate , etc) which culminated in my having to phone the teacher responsible on the last day of the deadline to chase it up - this after having sent several chaser emails in the preceding days/weeks. It was submitted it on the very last day of the deadline, although DS had done his personal statement & made his choices weeks before.

Going through the same process now to get DS to submit his offer acceptance & the deadline is next week! He made his decisions ages ago, but hasn't done it yet, and the school does not seem to be putting any pressure on him. Again, I am the one who is having to do all the chasing.

Now I accept that DS is 18 and an adult and needs to take responsibility himself. However, I also expect the school to have a process for ensuring these important things get done in a timely manner too. And DS has some special needs which mean he is not good at organising and managing himself like this - so I would expect some extra support from the school. Especially as we're paying a lot of money.

But maybe I have unrealistic expectations about this, and am prepared to be told I am?

I very much doubt that there hasn't been support for university applications in this school.

"Yeah the deadline's really soon".

"Why haven't you said anything to us about it?"

"I've been focused on exams."

DH: "why hasn't the school said anything to us about it?"

Says it all really. Straight away, someone else's fault.

So it's emerging that there has been the option to have information and meetings have been held. It isn't that the school has done nothing, but OP simply hasn't really been proactive in engaging, being caught up with other things.

I think that older teenagers need a lot of input and help and direction from parents. Schools cannot be expected to provide it all, regardless of whether the education is being paid for or not. It is the parents job to enagage, listen to their child's thoughts about the next stage of their life, facilitate practicalities such as visits and funding, advise and help their child decide themselves what is best. Being too busy is letting them down imo.

Schools cannot be expected to provide it all

I completely agree.

But in this case, the school meeting was held too late to be of any practical use.

Another Mumsnetter implying I'm a shit parent. Thanks. I'm sure you're perfect.

I guess the other ones like me just aren't on here looking at these threads at all.

Haffdonga my kids' school may be expensive compared to the state sector, but it's not posh.

DS2 went to a full boarding school we got emailed information about choosing universities courses which went on for quite a few pages so I opened it and then failed to read ialll of It especially the email said our DS's had been sent the same thing. Open days were mentioned but we were strongly advised not to visit too many in fact the value of them was considered not to be very great, (I'm not saying I agree with this) many of DS's friends didn't go to any and I think we were restricted to only visiting two in school time. No one told us when universities had open days but it is clearly written on their websites boys/parents were clearly expected to look into this themselves. The careers dept had information about courses and many including. ones in the US came and talked to the boys, boys were emailed etc informing them about these but attendence was of course voluntary and no one chased you to go. UCAS forms were done with HM's in the first term of year 13 That part seemed very efficient and DS's HM also advised in what universities to consider for their chosen subject. I thought it was all surprisingly and pleasingly low key for a school with very high expectations that your DS will get a place at the countries top universities
Through out the whole process I I definitely got the impression that information is readily available from a variety of sources but that boys were expected to make an effort to go out and find it. IMO whether we are paying or not is irrelevant I agree with what others have said they are 17/18, old enough to take the initiative about this and other things, as also said when they go off to uni they are going to have to shift for themselves
I accept that schools in deprived areas with a high % of parents who are not familiar with the university application process more support is needed but cartainlycnot for most parents I know paying school fees,

There is still time to get everything done so nothing lost really. Accommodation won't be an issue until he firmly accepts a place and then meets the condition.

Could you make contact with the relevant person in school to talk through what needs to happen now?

Neither dh, nor I, went to university. DS did. He was motivated enough to deal with the entire process himself, whilst working during his gap year. He decided which universities to apply to, which courses, contacted his former head of sixth form to arrange a reference, wrote his PS and found someone who would check it over for him. He also sorted a shortlist of university accommodation which he discussed with us before making his final decision. The only thing we had any active part in, was the student finance application. Everything else was done by ds - he found out dates, places etc and then, once he'd narrowed his choices down, he discussed with us. But he made the decisions and submitting applications etc was very much down to him. Just as once at university it was his responsibility to know and meet deadlines etc.

Er - he can't apply for accommodation until he's firmly accepted an offer (and some unis will let you apply with an insurance offer), but he definitely wants to have that application in place before results day. Some universities offer accommodation on a first come, first served basis.

Do you think your DS is actually ready to move away and go to uni? Most students at this stage are aware of student finance and have researched their options, as well as being clear on the deadlines for accepting their offers and what they have to do in order to go to university. Do you think he actually wants to go? It seems like he is trying to avoid thinking about the process!

If he is struggling with the application process, it seems like he will struggle even more at uni, where he will need to be able to find out information and complete assignments with very little handholding. If he needs support, he will be expected to find out what is available and ask for it. Universities tend not to be as engaged as schools are with this. Many universities will provide mentors/support staff to help with organization and deadlines and so on, but this needs to be sorted proactively in advance. Have you/he asked about what support will be available for him? In general, you won't be able to contact the university to check up on him as he's an independent adult.

If he's living in halls next year, that may help with the transition, but in a year's time he will need to have sorted private accommodation for second year usually with a private landlord. Next September, he will have to negotiate things like paying his own bills and so on (obviously along with his friends and housemates). If something goes wrong, how do you think he will cope?

I also wonder if not passing on any of this information is some kind of tactic to avoid going to uni next year. Is this what he actually wants, or is he just doing it because this is what he's "supposed to do" at this stage?

Get your DS (or do it with him) to check the accommodation pages on both his firm and insurance university websites. Some universities have early dates for applying e.g. Manchester's opened a few months ago. All universities have different dates and different policies.

I think Manchester is unusual in allowing offer holders to apply for accommodation before accepting them though.

I never went to uni. I learned all about the process via MN . DS's school laid on all the stuff haffadonga mentions. I still had to nag him every step of the way about every single deadline. If you look on the Higher Ed threads there is a long running thread for parents of this year's uni applicants. Lots of DC haven't yet pressed the button.

I too was wondering OP if your DS is actually procrastinating because he's not sure if what and where he wants to study. My DS applied in his gap year. He would not apply in yr 13 in fact at one stage said he didn't want to go to uni. He didn't really many attend talks from universities or engage with the careers dept when at school I persuaded him to look at two universities at the end of yr 12 but he wouldn't have done it on his own.
Now he's left school, got his results, lived abroad for a period, worked in a variety of jobs, and seen that working full time is definitely not all it's cracked up to be in fact work is pretty shit generally stepped off the education treadmill going to university doesnt seem like such a crap idea and the time out of education enabled him to work out what he actually might enjoy studying, he's not doing what he'd originally said when in yr 13 and where. Applying with your grades is also so much easier. Maybe your DS would benefit from a gap year?

The school was very slow to "sign-off" DS's UCAS form (review & check personal statement, that his choices were appropriate , etc) which culminated in my having to phone the teacher responsible on the last day of the deadline to chase it up - this after having sent several chaser emails in the preceding days/weeks. It was submitted it on the very last day of the deadline, although DS had done his personal statement & made his choices weeks before.

Whatever the school type I would have expectations that they have this in control without being chased-up by parents.
I also think it is sensible to copy in parents for the timeline of process (including year 12) with dates of critical deadlines. Otherwise open days etc should be up to the students and if needed the parents.
My DCs' friends always seem so much more proactive and organised with these sort of matters than they (or we) are .

So the school has done everything that they should do but just not to your timetable?

I'm also wondering if your ds is having issues with this aspect of organisation if he is ready for uni (or it could be the making of him)

@sendsummer - thing is the school wasn't on the edge of the deadline at all - there was a good three weeks to spare.

Basically it seems to me that OP (and her dh) took her eye off the ball, and is now blaming school for the consequences of that.

titchy I missed that . However having gone back and read that post, I would still expect a school not to delay the checking of the PS by several weeks (November until end of term), especially a fee paying school with more staff resources. The OP had her eye on the ball for that since she was involved in chasing up.

That said if it were me I would have learnt from both the above and Open day tardiness not to rely on the combination of the school and the DC. I would have then made sure that I was up to speed with the rest of the process to support a 'vague' DS who for whatever reason is not ready to take complete ownership of university application, accommodation and finance. That support as mentioned above could include discussion of a year out.

checking of the PS by several weeks (November until end of term)

Firstly, it is a private school so end of term would be much sooner than normal-first or second week in December.

Secondly, it is not just the PS that gets checked during that process (see my post upthread) -it is absolutely everything including every box/qualification and option the student has entered by numerous different members of staff-often in their own time out of school. It also includes making sure the school has copies of the past qualifications not taken at the school as proof of their accuracy as UCAS often want to see them and in my experience, a lot of students often drag their heels on that part.

It takes a minimum of two weeks and a little more if lots and lots of students tick their final box at the same time. It is perfectly normal and has always been the process in the schools I have worked in.

Could you imagine if every part of the application was not thoroughly checked and double checked? School would surely get the blame then and the student may ruin an offer.

If your son has the potential to apply to Oxford and has presumably applied to other well regarded universities then I'd say he needs to take much more responsibility himself.

He obviously knew that other friends were going on open days last June. It's relatively easy to find guidance on the UCAS website and on the Student Room.

There's also very helpful info on the UCAS website aimed at parents and you can sign up to get regular emails at different stages of the process.

I'd suggest that you find out more about the confirmation and clearing process well before 17 August. If things don't go as planned it's much better to have some idea about how to approach clearing as it all happens very quickly. And if things do go as planned, there will still be lots that your son needs to do to confirm his university place, accommodation etc.

I'd also suggest that you start talking to him now about how different university is, and how he'll have to take responsibility for understanding deadlines, requirements etc himself. You don't want to be back here in a year's time complaining that he's failing his course because the university didn't remind him about assessment deadlines etc.

IME parents have to be involved in arranging Open Day (or other) visits to check out universities and courses because (a) they fund the travel (b) they need, at the very least, to be fully consulted about absences from home. Of course, many parents accompany their DC to Open Days.

My sixth form college didn't really tell us much other than handing out UCAS forms and guide booklets and telling us when the deadlines were, 20 odd years ago. My parents couldn't be much help as no-one in my family had been to university. I had no idea one university might be better than another, other than that Oxford and Cambridge were considered the best ones.

I'd expect a school today to be much more helpful.

Hi. I work in private school, have an aspie son and have to guide those with SEN through the whole uni process. your son will get DSA and he needs to firm NOW so that the SEN dept at the uni can contact him to organise support. HE WILL NEED SUPPORT just in organising himself and meeting deadlines. There is loads they can do. The DSA needs to be sorted in the next few months - deffo before August otherwise he won't get exam concessions (if he gets them), the money to pay for support or aids. One of my pupils has just been sent their letter by their first choice with forms to fill in.

So when he firms he needs to ensure he has ticked the 'disability' bit on the application form. You will need a recent diagnostic report so get this sorted if his is ancient. If you contact the uni LS department, they will talk you through this but actually the SENCO at your son's school will have info.

To be honest, in our school, the form tutors do a huge amount on uni applications and UCAS. It takes loads of time. I do wonder that your son has had this input but has not communicated that to you. He's about to go through a massive transition so may well be head burying. He doesn't want to think about it. To other posters who don't have SEN children, honestly you have to view this lad as being two or three years lower than his chronological age in some aspects of his life - aspies have very spiky profiles.

This transition and fear can cause delays. The same pupil who has just got their LS letter took ages to firm because really they don't want to leave the security of school. I had to get pretty firm with them as did the rest of the team. I think you might have to do this for your son or give him the option of not going to uni and having a gap year. The delay isn't caused by school, it is in his hands and you as a family need to see if he is ready for uni yet. This delay in sorting out stuff is caused partly by your attitude that because you pay this parental drudgery is dealt with (although do agree there should be more communication especially as he has SEN), but by the fear of transition and his lack of social imagination.

And yes, he doesn't tell us everything he gets told at school - and that's one of the issues. I think they need to communicate some of this stuff to parents too.

He's 18 they can't.

And universities can't either. Is he really ready if he can't get the application sorted himself?

Kitty if a school needs more than 2 weeks then that should be stated by the school in a disseminated timeline of the process (copied into the parents). However it has been less than 2 weeks in at least 2 state schools with large sixth forms that I know of so I would expect a fee paying school with a well managed sixth form to achieve the same.