DP secret debt - help

[Headspangle]

Named changed but been ok here for years. Possibly outing myself with this thread but I am in desperate need of advice.
Been with DP for 7 years, 2 very young kids plus one teen each from previous relationship.
since the birth of our first baby together we have had the usual common issues of being distant, life imbalance, resentment, just general trenches of having young kids. However despite our difficulties and arguments I still held onto hope that once the kids got a bit older then things would get easier etc.
well long story short I’ve found out only once pushed that he has secretly got himself into £25k worth of debt. I went for an affordability meeting as we had been talking about moving and upgrading etc so when I had to ask him about any debts i was dumbfounded with what he told me. In fact, initially he said it was £15k which was bad enough but actually turns out it was much more. He said it got out of control and was using credit cards while money was tight and that although it’s a lot he’s on top of it - I’ve seen the credit report and his score is good but it’s still a huge debt and means all plans for the future and savings for holidays etc are out the window while he pays it back - for what he said is ‘only 4 years’ …
im livid and heartbroken and don’t know what to do. We have a mortgage but are not married. I love him and want our children to have stability but how can I trust him - he was always going to try keep it from me. On the one hand he has said sorry and it was wrong etc but then when I was crying and saying how heartbroken I am he said nothing and has made no plan for how he is going to rebuild my trust etc. he even got angry when I said I can’t believe he’s done this to our family and stormed out.
move also been a single parent for years with jy eldest and I can’t bare to go through it all again and uproot our lives - I’d be forced to relocate and lose my job I’ve worked hard for as couldn’t afford where we live now slone and have no support near me.
thoughts? Please be kind.

Yeah you will never have the answers, thank god youre not married so its not your debt too.

Honestly as painful as it is just cut and go or make him go.

"When a man tells you he isn't good enough for you, believe him" .... has never seen me wrong in life

He’s not taking any personal accountability for either the debt or the deception, just trying to it blame on you OP. He’s also not willing to change going forward by the sound of it. It seems like if you are willing to carry on the same and ignore what has happened then he will be ok with that.
What kind of life would that be for you and the kids though? He would then have your agreement that it’s ok for him to be dishonest with you and to run up unnecessary debts.

Good advice!

"...we never got that far before it escalated"
He escalated it and as a result you could not get very far looking closely at his finances. How convenient for him.

He blamed you (again) for his lack of transparency and still is not acknowledging never mind taking responsibility for the impact of his actions.

In approx a week he has shown a pattern of behaviour that is all about self-preservation.

You and your DC deserve better @Headspangle

😞 I know… it’s really bad. Thank you for helping me to see the truth.
I think I’ve been hoping he would then around and say what a dickhead he’s been and tell me how much he loves me and doesn’t want to lose me. I don’t know if it’s self preservation that he isn’t doing that.
I have found out how much UC I could get but making the final decision to end it seems huge. I asked him if he doesn’t want to be with me to let me know and he said thats not up to him. We are meant to be going away with my mum next month I’m so worried about telling her

"the conversation seemed to just flip to how he doesn’t feel comfortable talking to me because of various things I’ve done to upset him over the years. How our relationship was in a shit place any way and how he isn’t going to have his debt used against him in every argument ."

This is DARVO - Deny Attack Reverse Victim and Offender. It's a classical deflection tactic used by abusers, gamblers, and cheats to escape accountability.

"He doesn’t seem understanding about why I am hurt, he just tells me off for raising my voice if I get upset about it. He even said ‘what mess?’ When I asked him how he thinks we need to rebuild trust after the mess he has got us in."

This is another deflection tactic called dismissal/invalidation. Your view that this is harmful threatens his scam/self-image so he refuses to acknowledge that it happened: this is deliberate and intended to silence you.

I don't think "Wherever you stand, I’ll respect. If you don’t want to be with me, then I understand. If it’s too much to continue or too much has happened, I get it. There’s no point in living with with resentment or living being resented" is him wanting out of the relationship. I think it's him THREATENING you with walking away. He's banking on you being invested enough and scared enough to let this situation go.

This man is a basket case, OP. He is absolutely not safe for you and your children. All along you thought he was pulling on the same rope as you, he was pulling against you. You will all be fucked financially if you let this man continue to hold such an important role in your lives.

This. Until someone like a forensic accountant can match up money in and money out over various accounts there's not going to be a full picture of this £ 25k that was allegedly spent on Argos and pizzas.

Forensic accountancy would cost a lot of money that the OP needs for other things. She needs now to forget all about what he is hiding and get on with life without him.

I'm so sorry. Not only has he been a dreadful husband, but now he's trying to make it your fault that you need to split up.

And frankly after all he's done, why on earth should you not be the one who tells him that you don't want him back?

Nobody who knows even half the truth will blame you.

I hope you can look back on this time in a year and smile that you escaped.

This is not sustainable, financially or emotionally.

Remember that addicts will always, always put their addiction first and protect it, at any cost. In this case, the cost is your mental health and financial wellbeing of the family.

You are probably in your mid 30s, imagine next 30 years of this. It’s grim, isn’t it?

I know it seems like an impossible task but you need to get out and save every penny and investment in your house whilst you can. As @Randomchat said, not a single penny of your money goes to paying off his debt. No expenditure at all where you cover his part.

Tell your mom, your parents helped you before, they sound supportive. It’s not your job to cover up for him. You dont need to be his enabler.

You are asking him whether he wants to be with you but do you want to be with him? You are in a way asking him to make the decision about the future if the relationship because yes, it is scary and you are probably worried to get it wrong and therefore would rather not do it yourself.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that from where i stand, leaving him is the right decision. You will spend years hoping things will change otherwise and they never will. Save yourself the heartache and pain and get ahead with rebuilding your life. It wont be easy but in 5-10 years time you will thank yourself for it.

Pick one thing to do next, tell your mom. Things are scarier when they live only inside our heads.

I know, and that's the problem, because without one (or a mate who's an accountant) she's never going to get to the bottom of it.

I don't think it's that he lacks love for you or wants to end the relationship for its own sake. I'm necessarily reading in between the lines, but it seems to me that his money/spending/debt issue is really important to him. Much like an addict whose relationship with their substance is stronger than their love for their family, it's "This is how I am. Love me as I am, or leave me. I won't change."

He's pretty much said this out loud. His DARVO efforts are not only to distract you from the real issue, but also in hopes of getting you to feel you could have done more to enable him. He'd love it if you said "OK, you're the boss of your own finances. You do you, I'll take care of the family."

I hear how badly you want this to end in agreement, going forward hand in hand to a bright and secure future. Thing is, if he wanted the same as much as you want it, he'd have opened everything up to you and worked on it together BEFORE you made the mortgage application.

I'm so sorry.

I think it's largely that OP's emotions are blocking her thought processes. I've been there myself - I'm analytical, logical and good at maths, but my brain went all sort of woolly whenever I tried getting to grips with XH's finances. He obviously wasn't laying it all out clearly for me, and the effort of drilling down while he was so hostile conflicted with my need to think the best of him..

He certainly manipulated that - I lost out. But I didn't have children to think of.

Do tell your mum, @Headspangle. This is not a failing in you. It's a failing relationship with a flaky man.

Forensic accountant is a waste of money in this case because the only thing it will uncover is, there is debt and irresponsible spending, all the things OP has already established.

It would only make sense if we was hiding wealth and she would hope to claim some of that. He however is hiding debt due to gambling. Nothing to see there.

Also, forensic accountants can only access what they are given unless it is part of a criminal investigation. They can't just go into all his accounts because his spouse wants them to. No point in spending there.
I missed the point about previous hidden debt resulting in a mortgage being turned down prior to this situation.
So this isn't a new thing but a pattern with history.
I'm doubling down on gambling, unfortunately OP.
You need to protect all your finances as a matter of urgency and ensure no loan can be secured against your property without your written consent. You can flag this quick enough.
Do a credit check and report today. Pathological Gambling is progressive and will get worse until it is addressed or ends in a catastrophic event.
If it isn't gambling then no harm done with the protections you put in place, if it is then you will be thankful you took action now.

There's alot of shame in addiction and self flagellation through dramatic actions, exactly as you are reporting, OP.
He's moved a completely reasonable request to look at finances after a shocking discovery by you to the ultimate consequence, the ending of the relationship. This is common. I did it myself. It's designed to make your partner minimise the financial side because they focus on the huge consequences. The partner ends up feeling they are being unreasonable. It's a horrible think to do, but it's calculated. Make no mistake about that.
There are a number of really worrying things for you.

1. People in addiction who want to stop would usually use a key event like this to just come completely clean about the situation. The worst that can happen is the relationship breaks up and they know it but are ready to face everything, but he's threatening that is going to happen without full disclosure. That indicates he is not ready. He still thinks he can manage the situation.
2. His inability to let you see financial information and excuses about scrutiny and woe is me. If he has an addiction that he is serious about addressing then he is going to have to do alot more than that. Full accountability and control to you is the only way to go for at least the first year.
3. Your mindset. You are still in the mindset of thinking there's going to be an explanation that doesn't involve addiction. Well that is shrinking by the hour, isn't it. Only an addicts mind can think his response to you has been reasonable and only a loving partner would try and understand it. It's the shock covering logical thinking. Every post in here says there's something else going on. Most from bitter experiences.

But there's hope to get through this with the right strategies in place, but you absolutely have to know everything and he has to know this. No deflecting, no blaming, no minimising. Everything in the open. We moved from verge of repossession to owning our house outright and both retired before sixty with good resources. So it's not hopeless.
Good Luck,

first of all thank you all again for all
your advice and support - everyone has been so kind through what has been one of the worst times of my life.
as frustrating and mind boggling as it must be - the reality is I need to wait it out slightly longer - not forever but maybe even 6 weeks, while the dust settles and I can observe his behaviour and listen to my head rather than my emotions that are all over the place.
It may well be that I see clearly that the relationship is finished or maybe he owns up to what an idiot he has been and seeks to repair the damage. My DPs go to response to anything is to withdraw and tell himself he needs to deal with things slone as that was how he was brought up .
I certainly won’t minimise what he’s done or brush to one side .
In some ways it would be easier if he just ended it and then I could move on but I can’t see him doing that right now.

You don’t need to make decisions right this second, we are not here for an exciting spectacle just sharing observations unclouded by emotion and our own life experience.

@Goatsarebest provides invaluable insider knowledge of someone who has been through it first hand.

One thing i would do, regardless how long anything else takes, is to make sure no loans can be secured against your home. That is one true asset you currently still have. And i would still tell mom, if not in great detail then at least in general terms and hint at the fact he’s in financial trouble. Helps them keep an eye on you if you need support.

And save up all you can.

It’s fine to take a little time. Whilst he’s still with you I would ask him to contribute more. A salary of £55k means that he’s brining home roughly £3,500 a month.

I would work out, without him, exactly what your expenditure is each month to keep the house running.

Things such as School Meals, Utility Bills, Mortgage payments, Food, Insurance, clothes for the DC, nappies, birthdays and Christmas etc.

Then tell him how much it all is and ask him to pay more than half.

Don’t forget that you’ve been putting half in each month when actually he’s getting £1,800 a month more than you.

Do listen to the posters saying that this is classic DARVO. Nothing he’s said or done so far suggests that he’s either sorry that you’re upset or willing to change. What he has done is given you implied threats, for example “I can’t live with this being thrown in my face”. As the PP said that is meant to silence you.

It may be gambling, it may not. You will probably never know or may find out in the future when he’s hopefully someone else’s problem.

From experience I wouldn’t just assume it was gambling, say trading or coke. It could be a myriad of things. One thing is certain though, he wants to keep it a secret more than he wants life as a family to continue.

He’s gaslighting you and trying to make himself seem like the victim so you stop questioning him. It sounds like your relationship is over.

My concern now in your situation would be financially protecting myself so that when we did officially split I could prove the debts were purely his, and not yours as a couple taken out in his name. Otherwise he could try and argue the debts should be paid with the proceeds of the equity in your house.

It’s a big decision to end a relationship so I understand that you want to be sure and take some more time.
in my opinion this man is dangerous to not just your finances but to your psychological well being which I’d say matters even more than your finances.
He will I have no doubly continue to get into more and more debt on a daily basis. If there is a way that you can protect yourself from the impact of this then do it- PP excellent suggestion to ask him to contribute more to bills, I’d say 50% of what he earns. Put some aside for yours and the kids future.
if you are able to access counselling for yourself I would do that as it’s good to have support in difficult times and will help you to think things through more clearly.
in your heart of hearts do you think in 5 years time this relationship will be better or worse than it is right now?
Do you have trust and respect for him? And if not what exactly is left?

Are you still going ahead with Couples Therapy @Headspanglebecause at this point it looks like it will just be an opportunity for him to blame all of his abominable behaviour on you

Just wanted to add that if he’s earning £1,800 a month more than you, that’s £21,600 a year. It’s not just the debts he’s racked up, as I’ve said before he’s not explained why he’s needed so much extra money from his wages and where it’s all gone.

Saying he was buying things such as Pizza and items on eBay is bullshit.

If he wants to be with you is absolutely up to him. You asked what HE WANTED not what will or might or must happen. Just his opinion, and he wouldn’t even tell you that.

Such a massive betrayal and he won’t even tell his wife he wants to stay married to her.

Oh OP, he doesn’t care. He doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong…