DP secret debt - help

[Headspangle]

Named changed but been ok here for years. Possibly outing myself with this thread but I am in desperate need of advice.
Been with DP for 7 years, 2 very young kids plus one teen each from previous relationship.
since the birth of our first baby together we have had the usual common issues of being distant, life imbalance, resentment, just general trenches of having young kids. However despite our difficulties and arguments I still held onto hope that once the kids got a bit older then things would get easier etc.
well long story short I’ve found out only once pushed that he has secretly got himself into £25k worth of debt. I went for an affordability meeting as we had been talking about moving and upgrading etc so when I had to ask him about any debts i was dumbfounded with what he told me. In fact, initially he said it was £15k which was bad enough but actually turns out it was much more. He said it got out of control and was using credit cards while money was tight and that although it’s a lot he’s on top of it - I’ve seen the credit report and his score is good but it’s still a huge debt and means all plans for the future and savings for holidays etc are out the window while he pays it back - for what he said is ‘only 4 years’ …
im livid and heartbroken and don’t know what to do. We have a mortgage but are not married. I love him and want our children to have stability but how can I trust him - he was always going to try keep it from me. On the one hand he has said sorry and it was wrong etc but then when I was crying and saying how heartbroken I am he said nothing and has made no plan for how he is going to rebuild my trust etc. he even got angry when I said I can’t believe he’s done this to our family and stormed out.
move also been a single parent for years with jy eldest and I can’t bare to go through it all again and uproot our lives - I’d be forced to relocate and lose my job I’ve worked hard for as couldn’t afford where we live now slone and have no support near me.
thoughts? Please be kind.

Good luck for tonight. I think you're going to need it.

I thought the same . What’s tonight s excuse going to be?

EDIT: hadn’t FTFT ignore me

So far from what I’ve seen it’s literally all just random purchases - Argos, eBay, parking , pizza… all just stuff that doesn’t need to be using a credit card for. He said he was always running out of money and that he had no option and didn’t want to seem like he couldn’t provide for his family but the numbers still don’t add up. He was earning a decent wage even before his new job and even if money was tight I don’t understand why he was needing to take out huge loans. He said the credit cards are balance transfers so when one 0% runs out he had to move it to another one.
I don’t even know what I feel at this stage.

Have you managed to get access to his CC online then?

Keep digging. Argos and pizza and parking is unlikely to account for £25k.

Where did his salary money go, what is going on in his debit account?

…and btw, each time a balance is moved to a 0% credit card, a fee is calculated and added to the debt. At the moment fees are about 5% so moving 25k would cost him £1250.

Just fyi..

He's not showing you all the statements for all the accounts he has, is he. I suggest he has other accounts that he is not telling you.

Maybe you need to look a bit more closely. Instead of randomly looking at them, total everything up. Is he spending more than he earns? If he’s within budget on recent bank statements, then the damage was done a while back .

How has he explained tge 12% vank loan?

Have you seen the balance transfer paperwork? Does it say that they are 0% balance transfers?

Have you seen the non-credit card statements as well?

His attitude and reluctance shows he’s hiding something.

He's flimflamming you. Lying his lying face off.

Look into hiring a forensic accountant, and then tell him you're going to hire that person.

The song he sings then will not be this "dunno where the money went" bullshit.

Bottom line, there has to be ins and outs that will total to -£25k. So far it’s peanuts.

I’d need full access to his bank records. No BS about feeling scrutinised. How do you know he doesn’t have a porn or gambling addiction?

If he has a banking app on his phone ask him to log in and hand it over. You can see all his transactions for any bank accounts and credit cards. No cherry picking, you need to see it all. If not he’s out.

If he's saying he's put a chunk of it in trading 212 you should also get him to show you that account. Because you should be able to see it and see what's invested in it. And if he has a loan at 12.5% I can't see any reason why he wouldn't be liquidating whatever is in it to pay down the loan, especially as there are question marks over whether the high stock prices we're seeing at the moment will last or not.

Sorry OP , it’s verbal diarrhoea coming out his mouth.
random stuff does not equate that amount of money.
Hes hiding something big
gambling
drugs
prostitutes
porn

Its something addictive

He showed me the trading 212, he had made a grand total of £30 on it.
the conversation seemed to just flip to how he doesn’t feel comfortable talking to me because of various things I’ve done to upset him over the years. How our relationship was in a shit place any way and how he isn’t going to have his debt used against him in every argument .
He doesn’t seem understanding about why I am hurt, he just tells me off for raising my voice if I get upset about it. He even said ‘what mess?’ When I asked him how he thinks we need to rebuild trust after the mess he has got us in.
Infuriating.

That’s what I wanted to do - full income and expenditure and figure out a new budget but we never got that far before it escalated 😕. Feels hopeless

If it were me I think I’d be done. He’s playing games and clearly not being honest. I believe you could spend $25K on random crap, but not if you’ve also got a salary on top of that. Nothing he’s doing or saying is indicating remorse or reason to be confident this won’t happen again. What a total headfuck for you, OP.

I have read all the thread and from one who unfortunately knows, I would put a good bet on it's gambling. I won't because I don't gamble anymore, but the whole conversations and evasive actions and lack of accountability are very familiar, unfortunately. Even the dramatic 'you're better off without me' when you just want to see a statement, or the 'I can't be scrutinised continually' after a reasonable request, are old hat. I've been in recovery for a good few years but I would say 90 percent of the people there would have followed the pattern you describe.
I hope it's not, for your sake. But you really really need to find out. Because if it is, you have a whole new set of issues to consider.

And the deflecting back to things your partner did that upset you to avoid facing the accountability is pretty standard for pathological gamblers too.

Oh ‘all the things you’ve done! ‘ op. Fucking script. When I asked my ex to explain why he had used bondage tape in his bedside drawer I got ‘ohhhhh , all the red flags I’ve ignored from you!’ Followed by him going absolutely ballistic .
there’s no fucking way he’s £25k in debt from normal household bits and bobs . I really think you just need to end it at this point before you become a quivering wreck from all this gaslighting

Come on, OP. Could life without him be worse than this?

His text to you earlier gave me the feeling he was looking for a way out of the relationship. When he said

Wherever you stand, I’ll respect. If you don’t want to be with me, then I understand. If it’s too much to continue or too much has happened, I get it. There’s no point in living with with resentment or living being resented

This way he can say that you left him rather than him being the bad guy who broke up the relationship.

Sounds like he's been living the single guy lifestyle with expensive coffees and lunches and all while you've been keeping the family fed and clothed on a tight budget.

I'd be working out now how I can go it alone, if there's any way I can keep the house. I wouldn't count on anything from him.

I had to keep dipping into my savings to cover things like car repairs or trips away

I always pay half although I earn significantly less than him

I had to increase my own overdraft as my small income wasn’t enough to cover food

one B-road holiday in the last 7 years that I paid for out my savings and he is slowly paying me back £30 a month for.

no choice but to use my overdraft when we run out of milk

emotionally immature and his default mode is to be defensive.

just got back from collecting some vinted parcels that took me about 6 months to save up for . Just some £5 T-shirts etc. I burst into tears when I opened them. What different worlds we’ve been living in.

I sold so many things to try and make a few pennies. Same as selling stuff on Facebook which I put in a jar so the kids could have some spending money when we went away 😢. Feel like such a mug

He got £5k from his car getting written off. Any big purchases we’ve made have been paid for by either my savings or our family helped us.

we had the first shock when we got declined our first mortgage application years ago because of his debts his didn’t tell me about. (It wasn't a shock to him, was it ?!?)

And after all that lot, he gaslights you!

"the conversation seemed to just flip to how he doesn’t feel comfortable talking to me because of various things I’ve done to upset him over the years. How our relationship was in a shit place any way and how he isn’t going to have his debt used against him in every argument .
He doesn’t seem understanding about why I am hurt, he just tells me off for raising my voice if I get upset about it. He even said ‘what mess?’ When I asked him how he thinks we need to rebuild trust after the mess he has got us in.
Infuriating."

I'm so sorry, but I do hope you are working out how to live without him. Surely you can't still be hoping there's a future for you with him?

I had to keep dipping into my savings to cover things like car repairs or trips away

Assuming you still have some savings, do not use your savings to clear any of his debt. Not a penny. Don't let him bully or guilt you into giving him any money, either from savings or from your salary. This is his debt, not your family's debt. Hang on to every penny you can. You're going to need it.

This update is enough to tell you to get your things in order and separate. He doesn’t care what he’s done, how he has upset you and why you don’t trust him.

if this man wanted to keep your marriage together he would have shown you everything as soon as you found out and be doing everything to keep your marriage together there,

he isn’t , I don’t think he cares enough to fight to keep your relationship together, it’s all about him and how he feels.