DP secret debt - help

[Headspangle]

Named changed but been ok here for years. Possibly outing myself with this thread but I am in desperate need of advice.
Been with DP for 7 years, 2 very young kids plus one teen each from previous relationship.
since the birth of our first baby together we have had the usual common issues of being distant, life imbalance, resentment, just general trenches of having young kids. However despite our difficulties and arguments I still held onto hope that once the kids got a bit older then things would get easier etc.
well long story short I’ve found out only once pushed that he has secretly got himself into £25k worth of debt. I went for an affordability meeting as we had been talking about moving and upgrading etc so when I had to ask him about any debts i was dumbfounded with what he told me. In fact, initially he said it was £15k which was bad enough but actually turns out it was much more. He said it got out of control and was using credit cards while money was tight and that although it’s a lot he’s on top of it - I’ve seen the credit report and his score is good but it’s still a huge debt and means all plans for the future and savings for holidays etc are out the window while he pays it back - for what he said is ‘only 4 years’ …
im livid and heartbroken and don’t know what to do. We have a mortgage but are not married. I love him and want our children to have stability but how can I trust him - he was always going to try keep it from me. On the one hand he has said sorry and it was wrong etc but then when I was crying and saying how heartbroken I am he said nothing and has made no plan for how he is going to rebuild my trust etc. he even got angry when I said I can’t believe he’s done this to our family and stormed out.
move also been a single parent for years with jy eldest and I can’t bare to go through it all again and uproot our lives - I’d be forced to relocate and lose my job I’ve worked hard for as couldn’t afford where we live now slone and have no support near me.
thoughts? Please be kind.

Has he given you the date of when he is planning his big truth reveal? No?

I’m affraid i would be extremely sceptical at this point. All this newly found sincerity might just be a way to drag it out some more and get you to cling to hope and accept e.g. only a handful of curated statements as a result.

Until you get to login to his accounts and get a chance to go trough all the statements, the default mode for me would be ‘it’s over’.

I agree with you. I don’t feel optimistic after all this but I have to hang onto some hope for the sake of my children. And no date - I will ask again though.

At this point I feel like he's taking the absolute piss out of you.

It’s important to role model for your kids, would you want them to partner up with someone who treats his partner like your DH does?

Mmmn, I feel sceptical. Is he just saying what you want to hear, trying to placate you, whilst biding time to get his story (and ‘evidence’) straight? You’ve already sussed one loan, what other lies is he hiding?

Remember, don’t take what he says at face value. Loans etc have a expiry date, so a 0% loan today could incur a 16% interest rate tomorrow, when the 0% term finishes.

That sounds ominous op, I would be worried about his state of mind and then the debt

I agree it's always our fault. With my ex he gambled because he was unhappy. He had nothing to be unhappy about apart from in his head he was so special he shouldn't have to work for a living. But I threw him out because he was unhappy.

I would wonder if he wants you to end it so he can do whatever he wants, spends money as he wishes and with no responsibility. He can then return when it goes wrong. Don't we all.

Hey OP if he’s using Trading 212 it could be legit (I have a cash isa with them as they often the best rate and I have a stocks and shares account). However if he’s doing leveraged trading with them he could be borrowing money elsewhere and then losing it. So it is a form of gambling but it’s not betting like you’d do on sports. Google leveraged trading and you’ll get a good explanation as to how this works and how easy it is to lose all the money you invest.

You have to keep asking. He's still not remorseful about what he did or trying to earn back your trust.

I feel every time you speak he comes up with a similar story with a bit more added on the end
He’s just playing with time and prolonging the agony for you.
He’s had ages to come to terms with his mess, you’ve had a week and that’s because he’s fucking you around with his mind games.

You need to make a date in which you are willing to take NO MORE

I feel you are letting him take control of the situation when perhaps really you need to take control yourself in order to feel better

So if you’re going down the route of Couples Counselling does that mean that you’re both invested in staying in the relationship?

I can understand you being scared of life with 3 DC and one income with top ups from UC but can you ever really get over the hurt he’s put you through?

It’s been over a week that you’ve been truly devastated and so far he’s tried to turn it on you and lie at every opportunity

Couple counselling? So he’s avoiding the root of the problem, ie. addressing the debt. It’s been a week now. He’s had the whole weekend, and he still hasn’t shown you the statements.

Whats Couple Counselling going to achieve? All he’ll do is hold up his hand and say ‘I’ve been a naughty boy’ and/or twist it and blame you for the overspend. Is he playing to take the bank statements to the sessions? It sounds like a delaying technique to me.

To be fair it was me who said he needed to arrange counselling because there is no way we can rebuild trust without professional help. Apparently today is the day I’m going to get to see and be told everything 🙄 . Let’s see how he approaches this with me, I’ll be listening carefully and the moment he tells another lie or tries to deflect then I think I’ll have my answer

@Headspangle He needs to show you everything. That means he has to log in to all the accounts and let you look through things unhurriedly and answer any questions.

A limited selection of statements or transactions chosen by him was never good enough.

What he says is important and so is a lack of response to your questions.

Thank you, yep I agree. I’ve made a list of everything I want answered so I don’t get flustered. It’s weird I feel like it would almost be easier if it turned out to have been spent on something dodgy so at least I can just close the book and move on. If it just has been spent on needless crap then that’s even more infuriating in some ways as it just wasn’t necessary.

Prepare it will be a very dissappointing day.

Tbh, this man has done nothing at all to demonstrate he is invested in the relationship and will do all it takes to stay with you.

He has

• gaslit and blamed you
• withheld crucial information from you for over a week now
• belittled you (‘you dont know what you’re taking about’)
• showed zero concern for your current state
• lied to you re having ‘lika a savings account’ with trading 212, except it got no savings just (i bet) massive losses that swallowed up the 2 loans (£12 and £8k and probably money he’s got for the car, £5k)
• lied to you pretending he spent it all on ‘family’ when the actual fact is, you are selling stuff to get small amounts and you have paid for things and you live modestly

You have received a single text where he pretends to be sincere.

He is an absolute cretin OP, i’m sorry. And today you won’t get what he has promised. He can’t give it to you otherwise he would have, by now.

Your list of questions is a good strategy. It's easy to lose your mental thread if emotions are raised.

If it was spent on "needless crap", he was choosing to do that while you were getting into debt and selling your own possessions to provide for your DC.

His line about "bits and bobs for the house" is questionable too - wouldn't the new items be noticeable?

You don't have to answer any questions, I was just thinking of how he has explained the debt amount to you so far.

I bet you £100 there's some excuse or reason why it can't be today (along with a load of hand-wringing about how terrible he feels and how he's ruining everything). I'm sorry, but does he really have that little respect for you? Or care at all how this is making you feel?

Cant argue with anything you’ve said there @BeenThereBackThen . My pain, grief and fear is likely clouding my rational brain here - knowing how much of a risk it would be to give him another chance.
lets see how this evening plays out .

@BeenThereBackThen has it spot on. I would start with trading 212, look at the total amount that has been transferred in, compare it with the total amount of the current balance of that account and what type of transactions are involved. I would also be prepared to bet that there are no ISA's with positive balances in this account.

Multiple bank accounts and credit cards can create a confusing web of transactions where money is transferred into and out of accounts. It can then be difficult to trace where it's gone and what the original spending was for especially if the current credit cards show just balance tranfers from now closed accounts.

Hope you can get to the truth of what's going on here.

I would seriously consider consulting a forensic accountant if you can. @Headspangle

I didn’t even know that was a thing… thank you! I’ll look into it! Have called citizens advice to see if I could survive living here by myself and if I’d be entitled to benefits. Hopefully I can even though we jointly own the property. They said potentially can claim even if still living togetehr

Please don’t put all your hopes on him showing you everything (that’s if he comes through with it)
The waiting game he had put you through is torturing, whilst he probably shoved it to the back off his mind and only thinks about what he can say to shut you up when you send him a text

wouldn’t surprise if he does come round he puts the tears on (so you can feel sorry for him and give him a hug)

can not wait for his next move tonight

@Headspangle

There are a couple of websites too that you can try putting your figures into, they are

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/

and

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/