DH and sex issue

[ChitterChatter1987]

Me and husband are late 30s and have 3 young children, youngest is 10wks old.All are lovely of course, but all very demanding in their different ways.

I have never had a very high sex drive (despite husband keeping going on about how things were 'different' with me in that department years ago 🙄) we are lucky that we conceive very easily.However since having children it has decreased more and more over time.I have been a mum for over 9 years now, both my older children have never been great sleepers, and out of that time have spent probably 18mths not breastfeeding which obviously does impact sex drive too, although that isn't the full story, as also I don't like being naked, having my body touched, and this has increased as i've got older.I'm abit overweight and have wobbly bits but don't 'hate' my body, quite the opposite as i think it is more amazing than before I became a mum, as it has grown and birthed my babies! However it does make me feel self conscious him touching me.
Sounds wierd i suppose, but I just feel like I have 'grown out' of sex, like me and DH have been together long enough that we just tick over, with abit of affection when time allows and I find connection through sharing experiences and conversation.I don't feel comfortable without my clothes on and find sexual acts and the mess etc all quite gross.

HOWEVER husband does not agree.
We haven't had sex much since before I was last pregnant....DS was conceived after just one episode of unprotected sex (which was great for me, not so much for husband!) During pregnancy I felt too tired by the time the kids were in bed.
We last DTD in April as we had a night away together (first since having kids) I know this is awhile ago, but there are very little opportunities other than 10/11pm at night when all 3 are finally asleep and by then I just can't be bothered with the faff of it all.
Now, i do still feel tired after having them all day (summer hols) and also i personally just don't feel comfortable doing it with DS sleeping next to us.

Husband tried to initiate sex when baby was 7wks (so I was barely past the point of even being able to HAVE sex going by NHS recommendations) I declined and he got all moody and started trying to guilt trip me which I didn't rise to and put him firmly in his place about.But same thing happened last night (baby now 10wks) when i didn't want him hugging me without a bra on as I know it would turn him on, and i want my boobs off bounds whilst breastfeeding which has always been the case so he knows that.He got all moody and actually said he feels like it's getting to the point where he doesn't want to share a bed with me and also he keeps calling me 'cold' which feels really unfair! I'm not cold i just don't want sex!
He says its not about 'getting his kicks' more the emotional connection, but then has said it's a 'physical outlet' for him which makes me feel used.
When I decline it he says things like 'well you're clearly not attracted to me then' etc despite me telling him on countless occasions that it's not that (i don't want sex in general, not just not with him)
I just feel like i can't be doing with his demands, neediness, pressure, making me feel bad etc and have told him that its putting me off even more.I will admit I don't kiss him much either, but that's because he then always wants it to become sex.He doesn't have any adults he is emotionally close to other than me which probably doesn't help but I feel it isn't my fault or job to pick up the pieces from that.
I say that it's not forever, but at the moment i'm just not feeling like it and won't be forced to do something i'm uncomfortable with, then he says all sarcastically 'No i don't want to anyway now it's fine, let's just forget about it' etc.
(Then brings it up again afew weeks later!)
We also have issues with contraception as hormonal contraceptives cause me to have PMDD symptoms so I have to avoid them, and he won't get the snip, however I want to use 2 methods doubled up now that we have both decided we have had enough children, as we are very fertile and personally I could never have an abortion. The coil is the only thing on offer around here that isn't hormonal, but ive had a couple of friends who had horrid experiences with it and have heard it's painful having it put in. To be honest, I feel like if DH wants sex so badly he should get a vastectomy and use a condom, as i would only really be doing it for his benefit...I feel like I could live without it long term if he wasn't fussed.

I get it's abit frustrating for him but I have no issue with him masturbating, and if the kissing etc didn't always mean expectation of sex, I would be more keen to show him more affection in other ways.I don't know how to resolve the situation.He is a great dad, practically hands on and a supportive and caring husband in many ways.

"He has always wanted more sex than I've wanted to give". This language seems significant to me, that sex is a thing you give him. Not a criticism, but therapy is good for unpacking your history of thought and experience behind that phrase and see how an unchallenged belief might be affecting your life (I have had help from this!).

You have said therapy is out of the question (and I get it) but one reason you gave is the impossibility of going together. I would argue that therapy alone would be cheaper, would be manageable in terms of childcare, would centre this issue in terms of it being a clear priority, and would be more effective (at least initially) than couples therapy because you would be doing the most important work to meet yourself on this issue.

He may or may not want his own therapy but you can find some for yourself, whether through the nhs or a charity or privately.

Find out more about yourself in order to support yourself and also bring yourself to him with improved self-knowledge.

Sorry don't know why I scored through some of the text above-- it was accidental.

As many have said, you’re completely incompatible. Even when you have sex again, it’s not really because you want it is it.
Of course no sex due to baby is completely fine. But that’s not really what this is.

You need to seek a solution - counselling would be a good place to start.You cannot ask him to stay in a marriage where there is no sex. Equally he cannot ask you to have sex when you don’t want to.

It’s obvious that you don’t fancy him… this lack of sexual attraction is a problem… your marriage will not survive as it is. He will eventually either leave you; or he will cheat.
I would not be surprised if he is already looking elsewhere in some way.

Ask ANY man if they would stay in a lovely, happy, family marriage without sex forever (and once a month for a person in their 30s is very very little sex). They would all say no unless they have a medical reason for not wanting sex.

Your expectations are unrealistic. I agree you shouldn't force yourself to have sex if you don't want to. But he will eventually have sex with someone else if you don't have sex with him. That is a very basic fact. Sex is a natural instinct.

Honestly, most of the posters (the type who lurk on the relationship/sex threads I suspect) need to get a grip.

A woman who had a baby a couple of months ago, says she doesn’t feel up to sex? Stop the press!

YOU NEED THERAPY! YOUR MARRIAGE IS OVER/DIVORCE! YOU'RE CRUEL TO LET HIM LIVE THIS WAY!

Some of the most ridiculous advice that been on this site for a long time. And that’s saying something.

This sounded very familiar to me. It could be me writing the op.

we are currently going through divorce and it will all be over by end of the year. I initiated it.

it was a horrid cycle… him being crap, me being resentful. Him expecting sex every time I kissed him. Me feeling used and not loved… more resentment builds. He got worse with time…grumpy, lazy and not honest. No accountability.

money issues too. He is a very selfish person sadly.

i didn’t feel comfy having sex as I didn’t love my body and our kids were literally next door. I had a few issues in that department too and felt he didn’t care as I was just a hole. Awful.

in the end he cheated. So that was the end of that.

But why should sex determine the outcome of the whole relationship?!

It doesn't have to, but (here is the important part) only if both of you are on the same page. Both of you not feeling like sex is fine, both of you wanting to have sex every day is fine - it's the mismatch that's the issue.

I am sure that you would be upset if your husband told you that he had just "grown out" of a part of your relationship that's important to you, or you found out that he thought it unpleasant or gross.

He shouldn't be pressuring you, but you also need to realise that he's told you that this is important to him, whereas you don't feel it's important to you, and this is potentially something that can affect your long term relationship. This is not a just now issue - it sounds like it's been going on since way before the last pregnancy and birth.

I think you need to be honest with him - completely honest, including with you considering sexual intimacy “a faff”, unnecessary and disgusting - rather than stringing him along thinking at some
point down the line things might change. Then he has all the necessary information, so he can make a decision, and can also stop pestering you.

If that decision is to stay in your relationship, fine, but I hope you understand from this thread that it’s not an insignificant little sacrifice he’s making.

Sex is important, it’s not an insignificant little thing in your relationship. Might not be important to you personally, but the way you write about it indicates you think your perception is, or should be, valid for the majority of people, and it just isn’t. This is why so many sexless relationships break down, if the people in it are still young and their sex drives don’t match.

Did you read the OP? She didn’t want sex before the baby either. This isn’t a temporary, post-baby lull, this is forever. It is unrealistic to expect a partner (of either sex) to live a celibate life imposed on them. Of course OP shouldn’t have sex she doesn’t want. But she has to be prepared for her DH to not be happy with that and to consider that the lack of sex, or mismatch in sex drive, will lead to the end of the marriage.

That is part of it yes, as we are now both sure we definitely don't want anymore children.Husband is fine to wear a condom but is reluctant to have the snip due to the pain etc.I won't use hormonal contraception as it caused PMDD type symptoms mentally for me and also I don't like the increased medical risks associated with it.I could look into the coil but if there is any pain associated it which i've heard there is, i just don't feel that's fair when he gets to avoid the pain of the snip (I've already endured my fair share of pain in that department pushing our 3 babies out!)

I agree with you that sex doesn’t need to determine a whole relationship. My DP and I only have sex about once or twice a year because that’s as much as I’m up for at the moment. (Possibly due to past sexual trauma and also perimenopause.) My DP would definitely like it to be more frequent, but he masturbates whenever he feels like it (I’d guess every few days) and we have a very deep friendship. We had a lot of sex in the first few months but after moving in together I massively went off it. We talked about it a lot and it was a problem for a bit, but we both came around to feeling that it’s not a deal-breaker for us. To be honest it probably upsets me more than it upsets him because I crave the additional intimacy that sex brings, but I find the actual act really intrusive. We decided to really talk about it together - we were interested in have couples sex therapy but couldn’t afford it. We both listened to a couple of books about sex (Esther Perel Mating in Captivity was one of them) and for a few months we set aside a time every week to just talk with no screens or distractions. 50minutes - as though we were having therapy but with no therapist! We’ve never “got to the bottom of it”, we’ve just learned to appreciate what we do have. It sounds like you and your DH need to work on communication. I’m incredibly lucky with my DP - I’ve never had such good communication with anyone before. We’ve been together for seven years, living together for 6.5. Talking is key. Btw we don’t have kids together (he has older kids from previous relationship and them being around a lot was another thing that put me off sex when I first moved in) and I can’t even imagine how challenging that must be. But I genuinely believe talking is key. If you find after trying to create space for both of you to talk about how you feel that he’s still behaving like a big baby and having strops about it, then I don’t know - I think that seeps into the rest of your relationship, not just a sex problem, because he’s not behaving respectfully or kindly.

Because in most people's minds a marriage is heavily based on your exclusive sexual relationship, if it wasn't, why would people get so het up about cheating? Once a month in your 30s is crap, especially if you're not particularly enthusiastic. You obviously have totally incompatible sex drives, you are making him miserable by your constant rejection, he is making you miserable because you consider sex a faff. I feel sorry for both of you.

You don’t even kiss him. End the relationship, you’re on two different paths.

Sorry but I think you’re being incredibly naive if you think he’s happy with this.

What strikes me is that you and your husband appear to have no understanding or compassion for how the other feels about this issue. Absolutely none. You regard it as ‘just one issue’ and have a ‘why can’t he just get over wanting this, what does it matter, the rest of our marriage matters more’ attitude. But for him it is not ‘just one issue’ ( nor a trivial one). It’s a foundationaL stone in his marriage and his connection to you. There have been heartbreaking threads on here by men articulating very clearly the deep pain and loss and corrosive destruction they feel when their wives no longer want sex with them. You should try to find such accounts.

You are confident your husband will never have an affair. And you may be right. Some men are like this. But many more deeply moral men in situations like yours do find ways to justify having an affair. Most people have deep morals about things they never think they will never be tested on. Most find their morals are a lot more elastic, or ‘reframed’ once they are tested. And your H sounds deeply tested for a long and growing time. And it’s clear deep resentment is already there in your marriage. The existence of married people’s ‘dating sites’ make it a lot easier to find someone, and many find they rationalize their use to ‘save’ a marriage that would otherwise fail.

And your marriage is starting to fail. It may be well on the way to failing. And that’s the rub, isn’t it? If he stays, if he does not have an affair, the marriage can still have failed if you stay together unhappily with underlying deep resentment of each other. That’s not much of a life either.

I’ll end as I started. The striking thing about your posts is your profound lack of empathy or compassion for your H. I was struck by your comment that you are the only close adult in his life but that’s not your fault and you shouldn’t have responsibility for it. On the other hand, your self consciousness about your body you do make his problem by not wanting sex with him partly due to this. Firstly, your view of your body you do need to be able to make a firmly ‘you’ issue that does not affect your sex life. It’s clearly not a barrier to him, so don’t make it his problem.
Secondly, it’s fairly common for wives to be the one deep connection men have. Yet you trivialise and dismiss this for your H. That is a mistake ( and quite callous tbh). The fact that men are so emotionally and relationally reliant on their wives makes them more prone to affairs I think. Because if that one person stops meeting their real needs for close connection, they have a very high need to seek it out from someone else, and that person can only be another romantic relationship.

In short, I think your profound lack of understanding about how huge an issue this is to your H to ALL of your relationship, and a deep lack of understanding of how dependent he is on having a closely connected relationship with a woman ( whether you or someone else) has made you unaware of the risks to your marriage.

I have personally known two women who also thought their H was a deeply moral man who would never cheat and were utterly devastated when they did.

So if were you, I would start by reading accounts of men in situations like your H’s and then start to have conversations with your H where you can both start to have more compassion for each other and find common ground where you can find a way forward.

I get the breasts thing as they felt off limits to me as well when I was feeding . It's like they are solely your babies and they feel ' over handled and over used anyway ' .
I get that sex is the last thing you want but I also get that he has been patient and gone without something he obviously feels is missing from his life .

I think I would either consider couples therapy to communicate what matters in relationship and how everyone can meet their needs.
He must feel rejected, unattractive because that is how he views sex for you it is different.
Posters saying split up- relationships are about overcoming problems not jumping ship with kids on it because a problem cropped up.
I totally get your point of view, first few years of babies life I didn't not want to have sex either.
Tiredness has massive impact on sex drive, good night sleep can increase libido by something like 14%. Don't give up, just talk.

Thankyou, this is helpful.I grew up in a very anti-sex environment with an old fashioned and devoutly religious father who turned off the TV whenever there were people even passionately kissing.He made me beleive it was a negative thing (despite me catching him watching porn channels late on evening as a teenager 🙄) and that sex for pleasure is a sin.
Obviously I know that's a load of tosh now but the embarrassment side probably partially comes from that, alongside feeling self conscious about my body (I don't 'hate' it though) just don't feel comfortable naked due to the wobbly bits.
Also I am very hygeine conscious, hence the issue with the mess.I wouldn't want sex outside the bed due to this either.

So maybe individual sex therapy for me would be useful.

I feel bad for you op as you are getting quite a bit of blame here. I think the resentment has a lot to answer for.

i do accept some responsibility but ultimately it was his behaviour that killed affection for me. Why would I want to kiss someone etc that spends money on his hobby so that the family ended up massively in debt. He also had some hobbies which gave me the absolute ick…they turned. Into massive obsessions in end. Example Disney!

conversations died unless it was about his obsessions. It became more apparent over time that I wanted grown up conversations and he wanted to chat about Disney princesses. I wish I was joking.

he was also beyond crap around the house. Like really really bad. I feel embarrassed having people over as his standards are just awful.

i suggested therapy (he declined) and i tried telling him things that would make me happier but he wasn’t willing to put in work. He even said to me “why would I do cleaning, move house etc if you won’t do what makes me happy which is having sex”

resentment really has a lot to answer for here.

Thankyou for your sensible and rational reply! 👍

Read or listen to both of Esther Perels books matting in captivity and state of affairs.

People have strong reactions to her work however she isn’t wrong.

You are like millions of women around the world you have fallen into the trap of thinking your parenting relationship and love for your children, along with your shared history makes your relationship safe from infidelity. Despite the fact your actual relationship is not a priority and is massively misaligned.

Sex isn’t about PIV. It’s about attraction, fun, bonding and helping both of you with self esteem in long term relationships. In fact most people who have healthy connected sex lives in long term relationships 90% of it is about what happens outside of the bedroom.

Your kids are a red herring that at the moment is a good shield to use to stop the real discussion on the underlying disconnect and your views on sex.

You don’t feel sexy, you also don’t associate with your self outside of your view of you as a mother. Hence the to do list, view of your body as brilliant for having had kids, but not for your own pleasure.

You can go back to having sex, doesn’t mean it will be a particularly healthy sex life for either of you. But the normalisation of duty sex and a man should be happy with what he gets is still strong.

You talk about staying and resentment and unhappiness like that’s a completely acceptable solution just because you have been together 13 years and have kids.

The question is why would you think that was ok for either of your or your kids?

Another one who hasn't read the thread properly. OP hasn't just said she doesn't feel like sex because she's just had a baby. She's said she finds sex revolting and she grew out of it years ago, and she's not even 40. If I discovered my DH had felt like that about having sex with me, and had done for a long time, I would be out of there like a shot.

You need to be really honest that you would be more open to sex if you didn’t have to worry about conceiving (so he does need to look into getting a vasectomy because you’re right about condoms) and if he met you halfway around sharing the domestic load. If he isn’t pulling his weight there, I’m not surprised that you feel as if sex is one more thing that someone in your household wants you to provide. But he also needs to know (and you might need to exaggerate this bit rather than be scrupulously honest as you have been here) that you do still love him, fancy him, and he’s good in bed (as you say he does have skills). You want the pressure lifted and the emotional connection first. He wants to feel wanted in order to connect emotionally.

Would he be up for a conversation about this? Sounds to me as if you two could work your way back together with a bit of give and take- he needs to hear you and you him, but maybe a couple of daytime coffee dates (maybe the kids are with grandparents for a couple of hours) with hand holding and proper connective conversation might be a pressure free way to start things off for you, before you go on to an evening date night with the potential for sex at the end?

I feel this is spot on!

It's a bit unfair on you that he won't consider a vasectomy. Strange that another poster thinks you should think about a potential future partner of his if you split up?!
I know everyone's experience of getting the snip is different (much like giving birth), but in my husband's experience he had it done one morning when our youngest was 6 weeks old, then went back to work in the afternoon (probably shouldn't have but what I'm saying is he was absolutely fine after). The GP asked him about more children etc and my husband said 'I've got 3, and I don't want any more even if me and my wife split up'.
I really struggled with the pill so I wasn't prepared to go back on that, I think my body has been through enough over the years (childbirth etc) without continuing on hormonal contraception for years to come!
It might be worth speaking to your husband about getting some proper medical advice about the snip as I think lots of men listen to myths about what happens, it's (usually) no where near as bad as they think!