Should I cancel my birthday evening because my partner hates my ex?

[paltandsepper]

I am sad and annoyed but think I have to cancel my birthday evening out.

Not sure really how much in the wrong I am about this situation, I do accept some blame however.

I split with my ex about ten years ago. She rents the house we used to live in off me in a town about an hour and a half away, I rarely see her, I wouldn't say we're 'friends' but we're friend 'ly'. We bought a dog together who I have ex look after semi-often when I go away or such although dog with me most of the time. Ex usually stays at my house to do this because dog is elderly now. So there's that connection as well as the house. We get along fine.

Also my ex is close friends with my business partner, he lives in the same town as her.

It's my birthday soon. I am not someone who emphasises birthdays, I don't care for presents or attention personally, I'm an adult, but I do like a good get-together and to see people, a birthday does give me a reason for that, so I usually have some sort of gathering, and this year I have hired a singer/comedian to play at my local pub. I've invited more or less everyone I know who could feasibly get here, and was planning to make some casual/finger food and have a few bottles of fizz for people at my house for a couple of hours or so beforehand.

Ex and business partner are invited and coming and staying over.

I am looking forward to the night and seeing everyone, I have had this singer on a few times and he's brilliant.

DP is furious. Hates ex. Angry with me, I've been berated and told i am putting her in a very difficult position having to be around ex and not say something to her.

Ex was abusive, DP knows this.

DP is a lot more volatile of temperament than me. I am live and let live, sociable, glad things are good now, happy with how me and ex are now. Happy we get along well, I don't spare a moment thinking about our relationship of the past, it was years ago, she's a different person now and I seldom see her.

I have had so many arguments with DP about this that the evening is just not going to be enjoyable. I will be on eggshells all night if it goes ahead, awaiting for something to go wrong (DP has even asked whose 'side' I'd take if they argued). DP will have a face like thunder all night. In the run up to it I will undoubtedly be subject to more arguments from DP and I am already dreading it, something I was looking forward to, because DP is so furious with me for wanting ex there.

How in the wrong am I for being friendly with ex? DP isn't jealous far from it, it is all hate rather than suspecting anything.

It will cost me £350 to cancel now. Deal was I pay half pub pay half so maybe only £175 if the pub decide to still put singer on and I will just pay my half.

I hate the thought of letting people down who may also have been looking forward to it too, family and friends.

Sorry if this is a bit confusing, I am typing in a rush but I would love some opinions from unbiased people. I cannot talk to anyone else. DP was awful last night and I don't know what to think.

I am not sure about this, I know people have said I am lying about being confused but I honestly am not. I am not an unintelligent person but I am aware that that doesn't mean I am infallible to not seeing things others do.

My life is very, very quiet usually. I WFH part time and have two small businesses that I run with BP. I live alone, don't see a lot of others. DP visits most weekends and we'll go out to visit places or go out for meals/drinks but that's about it. I arrange to see friends sometimes (as I had for birthday and other events) but if DP isn't here I mainly just work and go on walks and stay at home. I don't feel 'surrounded by drama' in any capacity? Of course this thread was started on the back of some 'drama' (albeit I wouldn't have termed it that) but 'surrounded' by it?

I did suggest this (not sure if I have mentioned it in the thread) that she could just not come, I mean pubs and booze etc aren't her thing as a rule anyway) and we'd do something else together for my birthday if she wanted to.

If me and DP don't last I will not be looking for another relationship. Me and ex are fine as far as I am concerned, I just do not have a problem with her but I take the point that others might, and I have also taken all the points that I am somehow missing some essential mechanism to see this 'manufactured anger' or controlling behaviour or gaslighting.

I am very sad that this has happened. As has been detailed by a previous poster, I accept that I am just not equipped at this, when I don't expect something and it is so far out of the realm of my way of thinking (I mean, I'd never try to control others' friendships, I'd never be moody or sulky at events to the point it upset others, I'd never do anything like any of it) that I just do not see it.

I will not see DP for a couple of weeks now just due to other commitments.

DP has actually advised me that she recognises now, that my way of thinking about my ex and others in my life may be different to how she would think, but it is valid and not for her to decide, and that this is something she's now thinking differently about. So that's something.

I will try to find a way of working through my issues that have caused this situation. I cannot afford private therapy and my last couple of NHS therapists (for completely different, unrelated specific issues) have been beyond useless! So that's not an option for now.

Thank you again for responding, everyone.

OP you sound really vulnerable. You need to cut this person loose. Your life sounds utterly miserable trying to please these difficult people.

I appreciate this and I am most definitely going to try to have a real look at myself with honesty. For now, I just do not know where to start, but hopefully that will come with a bit more reflection.

You sound really switched on, OP, and a kind person. That's a good quality, not a weakness. We're not all primed to be alert for damaging behaviour in a partner; why should we be? It's like expecting an axe murderer to burst in through the bathroom door every time we take a shower.

And yes, I was apologetic and embarrassed the following day even though I didn't really do anything wrong

Someone like your DP will twist your reality like this constantly, until you start to doubt your own interpretation of things. That's the danger of a relationship like this. I'm glad you are aware of it now.

I often recommend Copilot for talking through this sort of thing, rather than forking out for therapy. Of course this invites an avalanche of condemnation on MN, but I've found it incredibly helpful for clearly identifying patterns when things are confusing or ovewhelming (my fucking family!!! 😩😳🤣).

I'm sure you'll be fine. Good luck! 💗

Thank you. It's odd, given the way my Dad was you'd think I would be primed for this sort of thing but I'm not. 😆

Is copilot like chatGPT?

One thing that keeps coming up for me is that when I spoke to DP about all that happened I asked, did she think that shouting and speaking to me the way she has been, is okay and should continue? I added that it was a genuine question and she responded 'It's not a genuine question because you wouldn't like the answer'.

I found this really 'alarm bell' territory. We went on about other things and later in the conversation I said 'well you do think It's okay to shout etc because you said 'i wouldn't like the answer' and she said that isn't what she meant and that I must just think the worst of her, that she's a monster....'

I, as someone who's rubbish at detecting this sort of thing, did see that as manipulation and.. something else I cannot think of the word for!

Life has been very peaceful until recently but yes, this situation was absolutely miserable albeit I know it is hardly a huge deal. What vulnerability/ies would you say I had?

I think what makes you seem vulnerable to me is how readily you will accept this walking on eggshells behaviour for other people and how willing you are to let abusive people have such a prominent place in your life.

You've had some good reading recommendations here. I get that the NHS won't offer free counselling on a plate so I think reading and learning could be the next best thing here. I think our brains have this ability to normalise almost anything if it's persistent enough and that's not a good thing when it's this behaviour.

Thank you for responding.

I would definitely agree with that. I am glad, in a sense that my brain hasn't thought this was normal, I have obviously done some learning since childhood (now that's an acheivement) but yes, I will be doing some work on myself further, definitely.

I had counselling a year or so ago through the NHS for a different reason and I honestly cannot say I got a single strand of usefulness out of it. He seemed almost afraid of me? Hard to explain. A lot of repetition from session to session, never getting anywhere, never put anything useful to me at all.

A few years before that I had an NHS specialist therapist, again, unrelated to anything talked about in this thread, and she didn't listen to me at all. That was therapy for a specific health issue rather than talking therapy, and I had described my symptoms and it was as if she had her own idea of what they were and hadn't listened to me saying that actually, that was not the issue for me at all.

Yeah I don't think all therapy is created equal. Remember reading on here about someone who paid for therapy and all the therapist did was repeat back everything she said as an affirmation. I'm no ai fan but that's something that ChatGPT can do for free so it's bloody cheeky to charge someone for that.

Yeah maybe just do your own reading for now.

Paraphrasing is a skill used in therapy that can be helpful but absolutely not as a 'stand alone'! Anybody could do that. Ridiculous.

Alarm bells? She's sounding more like Big Ben all the time. Yes, she was being manipulative and well done for recognising that. She was also acting the victim. In calling herself a monster (which let's face it, not that many people truly are), she is calling on you to tell her she's not that bad and reassure her she's not a monster. So she's reversing the victim and the offender. Read up on DARVO.

Also alarming is where you say "Strangely, I did get a bit drunk on a night out some time ago, and I made a joke that she didnt' find funny and I am still apologising for it months later, as she took it very badly and often brings it up.
I really didn't mean anything by it and apologised straight away at the time (when I say I was a bit drunk,I wasn't 'falling over, being sick' drunk, just had had a bit more wine than I am usually comfortable with. And yes, I was apologetic and embarrassed the following day even though I didn't really do anything wrong."

You did nothing wrong but still she brings it up? Why do you think she does this? To make you feel better about yourself? No, she's tearing you down. Why would she do this? Because she wants to control you. Seriously, you need to walk away from this relationship before you find a shell of yourself walking on eggshells.

Read up on narcissism and abuse, maybe also do the Freedom Programme. You don't need to write off having a relationship in the future, but can I suggest you equip yourself with knowledge that will help you find out if someone is wrong for you. I think at heart you know this one is wrong, read back your posts as if this was a best friend and consider how you would advise them.

I felt that if she was apologetic or remorseful, shed' have answered 'No'. 'You wouldn't like the answer' of course implies that she meant 'yes, it is okay to shout at you'. I appreciate people's brains all work differently but that was a very black and white situation to me and I had no idea how else I could have possibly taken it, but she was implying that because I had taken it that way, I was saying she was 'a monster', and I 'must view her through a negative lens' or something. It seemed a very unpleasant way to discuss it, to me. If she'd have said 'no I don't think that's okay, I am sorry, I was just upset' or something, I would have felt we'd come somewhere as a couple.
In a similar vein, I said that I didn't think half of the things were worth losing one's rag over, she said 'Well if you thinkthat's losing my rag you should see when I actually lose my rag!' which to me just felt threatening.

We don't communicate well do we.

I agree, about that time when I got a bit drunk and said something she didn't like. It honestly felt like nothing, just a joke that she didn't take how it was meant, it wasn't a dig or to be unpleasant or to have a go at her or anything such as. If that was the other way around I would've just forgotten about it in five minutes. It's as if she's clinging on to small things she can use. She's also listed the things she's done to help and asked if they do not mean anything, of course they do! She's referring to practical help she's given me with DIY around the house where I've got a few DIY projects going on. I do appreciate the help, but if I think about it, I could flip that and say that of my misplaced joke, I had taken her away and paid for everything, driven, organised everything, does that not mean anything now just because I said something she didn't like? Not that I ever would because I know that's not how the world works. And I did say to her that I'd rather she was rubbish at/didn't help with any practical projects, and instead chose to talk to me nicely and not shout!

Sorry, that's probably just a wall of text. It has always helped me to write things down and refer back to them. It allows me to understand, and I am definitely going to get reading.

This. Are you a doormat? Aging dog or not..

I think it’s unreasonable that you’ve invited your abusive ex. What kind of a business partner is friends with an abusive ex partner FFS! I think the birthday party is a nice touch of a large get together but why bring an ex in that had done you harm? And your business partner who’s a „flying monkey“..I would cut ties with other anyone who supported an abusive partner.

"something else you can't find the word for" might be "bullying"?

Re your dad, maybe he primed you to accept awful behaviour as reasonable, and perhaps you got into the habit of trying to make things better for everyone affected by him, including him. But I might be projecting here 😜

I'm a maniac for Copilot, I find it such a useful tool for all sorts of things. Apparently ChatGPT is equally good, but whenever I've tried it the responses are not as high quality. Might just be operator error, though. Either way, once you create a profile you can have ongoing conversations and it will remember everything you've already explained about various situations. Which is more than you can say for most people, therapists included!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's odd, given the way my Dad was you'd think I would be primed for this sort of thing but I'm not. 😆

I just wanted to add, people have this misconception that naivety about abusive people comes from not having experienced that sort of thing before.

The reverse is often true: You grow up thinking, Hmmmm, I seem to be the only adult round here. So you get used to putting up with odd behaviour and making the best of it, because that's the survival strategy you needed to cope. You might also feel deep compassion for the abuser, because you can see how fragile they are and want to magically fix that for them by being kind. It doesn't work, though.

That's what I meant about emotionally immature parenting, earlier.

...and I feel terrible writing that, because I loved my dad. But I can't pretend I didn't learn some fucked-up coping mechanisms from childhood and adolescence, that completely skewed my idea of what a healthy loving relationship looks like.

However! We may be cast in a mould, but it's never too late to break it 🌞

Hi OP.
You said that writing it all down helps you and I think it probably is because you are remembering several incidents that made you uneasy and looking at them again.

The one that jumped out to me was
"some time ago, and I made a joke that she didnt' find funny and I am still apologising for it months later, as she took it very badly and often brings it up."

This was a weekend that you had planned and paid for everything. And it was ruined again. How many months have to pass and how many apologies do you have to make for one tiny slip. Clearly a lot more than she does if her response to the "Angry quips" she made on your birthday were "I don't remember"

You shouldn't have to apologise repeatedly over and over again for a small infraction which has been worked into a bigger thing than it really was.

The "monster" comments were also dreadful.. said to urge you to say "Oh no. Of course you are not etc" because you dared to criticise some of the not very nice behaviour... and so it was twisted into you causing offence by making her feel like a monster.
Its good that you have three weeks space before you are due to meet. Hopefully that should give you a chance to think about whether this relationship is working for you or not.

And next time she demands an apology for the joke fail... "I've apologised to you repeatedly for that, how many more times do I have to say it."

You had planned a lovely birthday party, with great music, lots of friends attended (yes.. inviting the ex complicated things, but that was done before you got together with your current P) and it should have been a great evening.... except for the behaviour of your P. You clearly do have lots of friends who appreciate you and turn up, you have your own business and work well with your BP. You have a lot going on for you to focus on.

The older I get the more I think that I only want to spend time and effort with people who are actually kind and pleasant.

Thank you for this. It never did make sense to me why I wasn't equipped. You're right in that I absolutely did feel sorry for my dad growing up..I still do. He's a very troubled man. But as an adult I can understand these emotions. At 3+ years old i just thought it must be my fault.

Bingo.

That's how we end up not batting an eyelid when we're in a relationship with someone demanding and unreasonable.

Forewarned is forearmed, though, OP! Once you keep an eye out for this sort of thing, it gets easier to spot. Then, you can either tackle it head-on... or, as I prefer, avoid that person in future. (Higher success rate; these people don't change!) 😁

Ohhh!!! Just one more thing: I woke up thinking of a sort of diagnostic tool for this kind of relationship.

When you find yourself feeling anxious and responsible, ask yourself:

Would I behave like this towards someone I care about?

If the answer is something along the lines of "Of course not, because I am not stupid and I want them to be happy" - then you know that this is not a healthy relationship. It's you just revisiting a role that feels familiar to you: the one where you had to set your own feelings aside to try and coax someone else back into reality.

As children, we were stuck with this. But as adults, we can choose something else. What you want is someone who sees things the same way you do. Until I met now-DH, for many years my best way of ensuring that was to be alone! - but never say never about meeting the right person.

A few things

the house you rent out - the friend who co owns it with you isn’t helping. She doesn’t went to sell. She doesn’t want to update. Seems it’s all on her terms

it’s blurring boundaries renting to ex dp. Tho I gather she stayed in the house after you split ?

I get the dog situation. She’s old. You got her together , so why ex stays in your home looking after dog - as she can’t handle strangers

maybe once dog dies you need to start reducing contact with ex

not really sure why ex is coming to your birthday party

they are an ex

not sure why ex and business partner are staying at yours

why does current gf not like business partner

I appreciate this. In fact, although it is unlikely as it is so convoluted, I do hope that others who've got similar psychological profiles read this thread as it has so much good advice in it!

I think a problem for me has been different profiles of abusive people. I think one would need very specific training to spot a pattern if they looked at them. I do use the past tense here though, it will not be happening again.

I think a problem for me has been different profiles of abusive people.
Oh god, yes, me too. The expression "wolf in sheep's clothing" did not come out of nowhere! We're not the first, and certainly won't be the last, to think we've made a positive change with a new relationship only to find ourselves back in the cooking pot, just with a slightly different flavour sauce.

Thinking about it, what they all had in common was:
(A) Some kind of helplessness/back story that made me feel sorry for them
(B) A victim perspective (chip on shoulder) that distorted the way they interpreted everything around them
(C) Always looking for things to stress about and blame me for.

All the above set off an automatic response in me. I literally felt compelled to do everything I could to make them feel better about themselves and their life.

It's a magnetic combination: our instinct to rescue / soothe / stabilise, and their instinct to collapse / blame / see the world in terms of injury.

It's not because we're stupid: we just grew up with someone needing an external stabiliser, and that role fell to us, so it just feels natural to adopt it again.

I remember the first time I read in some book or other, "You are not responsible for other people's feelings" - and I simply couldn't believe it. It was like reading "It's OK to kill." There are still people who trigger that sense of responsibility in me, but nowadays I just have a word with myself and steer clear.

All we need to learn, I think, is to recognise the difference between someone who can regulate their own emotional state and someone who will depend on us to do it for them. Spotting them gets easier, I promise you!

Edited to add: the words "emotional maturity" are very useful to refer to when asessing the qualities of people in your life... and not just partners. Being how we are, it's easy to find yourself surrounded by this sort of person, e.g. at work, and that makes us even more accepting of our support role because that just seems to be the way the world around us is shaped. It's not, or needn't be.

Good advice again

remember the first time I read in some book or other, "You are not responsible for other people's feelings" - and I simply couldn't believe it. It was like reading "It's OK to kill."

This especially rings true with me. So if I were to do that birthday night again, I should have not felt that DP being obviously unsociable, and moody and quiet was something that was my fault. But what would I actually do with that information? Act like all was okay (I did do this to an extent)? Tell my friends who asked that I had no idea what was wrong with her she was just huffing for no palpable reason (they'd all then think bad of her which I know isn't my problem really but it kind of is)?

Of your last sentence, absolutely yes. I will add to it, people who are generally cheerful rather than 'angry at the world' being their default! Rightly or wrongly it just makes me nervous. I am going to actually say something like this to her. I am as I've said, lucky to have a lot of very nice, pleasant, understanding, kind people in my life. Despite previous difficult relationships, I am very much not used to this now.

One thing I am pleased to say I DIDN'T do, is appease her by saying 'no, no you're not a monster!' Or anything such as.

When she got annoyed at my joke, I apologised and thought that was that. That was our last night there, luckily and we'd had a good time so I didn't feel anything was ruined. When she brought it up again I again apologised and said that I didn't mean anything by it at all, I was just joking. She doesn't believe me, says I was 'very rude'. And fair enough, if that's her true feelings then that's valid. One thing I didn't do is use being drunk as an excuse because, like more than one person on this thread has said, it isn't an excuse. And it wasn't as if I was absolutely plastered either, of course, I remember saying what I said.

But in my mind even if she does feel like that, she knows me and she knows I'd never ever try to upset her on purpose, I never have, in fact I never try to hurt anyone on purpose! I am human and can get things wrong but I would think she'd know that about me. It's as if she almost wants it to be true so she can continue to use it against me.

I suppose I should comfort myself in that she hasn't found any other examples so keeps having to use that one.