Starting a fourth thread when I hoped three would be enough

[PithyBeaker]

really hoped I wouldn’t need this but looks like I do

@PithyBeaker It seems to me that you’re both actively maintaining your connection, by discussing where it went wrong.

However, you’re at an impasse. He only wants to be with you if he can move his (challenging) children into your house. You only want to be with him if he doesn’t.

If you maintain the contact there are 3 options from here:
One of you gives in and agrees to a living situation they don’t want, in return for a renowned relationship.
One of you meets someone else and things end abruptly, or
Things burn out slowly but after months (?years) of the same conversations about how and why it went wrong.

I mean this nicely, but don’t you just find it all exhausting? He won’t change, his kids won’t change, he treated you badly, he wanted your son around less.

I would treat it like giving up smoking - reference for the kids there 😉 Work out when your vulnerable points are- so when he texts you and it feels rude to ignorance, or when he tends to call you or whatever. Then work out what you will do at that point to replace the habit of speaking to him. You need a substitute for that habit to help break it. The holiday should help. But of course he wants you to stay in contact for obvious reasons so it will be up to you to steel yourself. I know it's hard but you'll feel better in the long run.

“It’s not for him to have an opinion on other than if you ask him.”

He would say it affects him so he is entitled to an opinion. In the same way, I was entitled to express opinions about how much money he gave his ex and their childcare schedule because it impacted me… Just playing devil’s advocate but how is it different?

Yes. This is exactly right. It is an impasse within which he is hoping I’ll give in and I’m hoping he’ll give in (change, agree to live separately, etc). And neither of us will so it will only change if we meet someone else. I’m sure he’s trying to. I cba.

Yes, it feels rude to ignore his calls but perhaps I should. I do find it massively exhausting to keep going over and over the same things.

Channel your inner, “My god, this is so exhausting” vibe 😀.

I thought you were blocking him? Why give him any further bandwidth. You owe each other nothing. Move on.

Put this on!

He's determined to wear you down. No surprise there. It's always been about his wants and needs, not yours.

Have a think about making your very own D-Day before you go on your holiday. A final text to say "have a nice life, bye". Then block, go to the airport, have a cocktail.

It seems to me @PithyBeaker that you want to find a way to be with him.
If that’s your choice then so be is but I think it’s really sad. This was a man who offered you FWB when you were broken hearted.
If you want to settle with this man then you forgo the chance of healing, and being with people who love you and perhaps one day meeting someone who really values you.

Stop answering his calls and answer texts only but the first whiny or complaining one, pull right back. Have a standard phrase to end a call if you get sucked into one. "Things to do - bye" or some such. Similar with texts.
He's never going to let you go. Who phones first- him or you? If it is you, why do you feel you need to call him? If it is him, what is the real purpose of his call?

“So he calls me up and he’s like, ‘I still love you’
And I’m like, ‘I just, I mean, this is exhausting, you know?
Like we are never getting back together, like ever.’”

credits to Tay Tay 😀.

I have 3 daughters, I am very familiar with Taylor’s work and I must say, she does great break-up songs.

The 'this is exhausting' line was what came to mind from reading OP's posts. 👏 to Taylor for getting to a better place now!

@PithyBeaker these are not equal comparisons. You cannot force your child’s father to have your son more than he does, it may impact the person you live with but they can’t berate you for something you have no control over.

conversely your ex is choosing how much money he gives to the mother of his children and that negatively impacts your family/home life/relationship and is a choice that is entirely within his control. You can complain about that because he has a choice to make a change but has chosen not to.

Those “reminders” are him wearing you down. You are right to recognise that he is saying it’s your problem to fix, which you could do very quickly in his eyes.

The only answers are:

• “you must be looking for a place with a garden, then”
• “you’ll be looking for somewhere you can move into quickly, then”
• ”I’m surprised it’s taking you so long, to be honest, if it’s that bad”
• best of all from a different thread with this name, “There we are then”.

I didn’t say it was different ? I was expressing an opinion on his behaviour.

And to bang on again, endlessly going over what he said, thought did and might say, think or do is not helping you move on. I am aware of the irony here given I, and others are helping you! I suspect it’s also a delaying tactic for you.

Actually, given you still care for him the best thing you can do for him is to go no contact. He is not going to give up.He is entirely convinced you will take him back, and your ongoing conversations are reinforcing that. He may meet someone else but why wait? Let him go for his sake, if you can’t do for yourself.

Yes, this is the endgame with him staying in touch. The longer you are apart, the more your perspective on why you kicked him out clouds, so he's using that to his advantage to re-write the narrative and pile on the false promises and emtotional blackmail.

In his mind, you're incapable of cutting off comms and any day now you will suddenly say 'What was I thinking? I miss you so much. Let's try again'.

As PP said, the contact is pointless. It's interfering with your ability to move on at a natural pace. The worst aspect of it all is that it's stealing headspace from your son. I keep thinking of his pure happiness at your decision to end the relationship. That's a gift worth protecting.

We would see how fast he enjoyed your opinions snout his ex or anything else if it made him uncomfortable or unhappy.

I have a patient (therapist here) who always gives the imagined rebuttal her husband will give her “but he will say this!” She is very mych hobbled by treating everything as a court of law where she will be out argued by her legal opponent.

This is not a court of law. You do not have to out argue him. You don’t have to win on points. There are no external judges to impress.

You have to learn to trust YOURSELF and support YOURSELF first, last, and always. There is no need for an argument with him even when he was living with you. If you didn’t like him haranguing you about your ex it should have been sufficient for you to say “stop doing that. I don’t like it.” It is meaningless to imagine him saying “well I would be fine with it.” He is a different person with a different situation. Equity is not the issue. His arguments are irrelevant.

Imagine there is not enough food to go around and he grabs the last bite for his child. You say “that’s wrong we should split it among all the children “ and he says “well I wouldn’t object if you had done it first.” You see how silly it is to let him set the terms this way?

Honestly you don't need to defend him any more 🤷🏼‍♀️

Not you, no.

The most erotic feature in a relationship is the attraction between you ... and my God, has he ever made himself unattactive.

Your body knows this better than your mind, I think!

He's the one who is deeply flawed. Greek Gods were dreadful to fuck - just look what happened to their lovers.

The dogs bark
But the caravan moves on.

This is the fundamental truth of the break up.

He maintains the shock and trauma of being kicked out “changed him”. He reckons he is a changed man.

He shouldn't have needed to change.

He should have been what you wanted/needed all along.

Didn't he want you to see less of your son?

Didn't he & his kids trash your house?

How does he need a shock to realise that that is not how you treat someone who you purport to love/respect/care about?

Changed man? Oh dear. Still trying to get into your home with his kids. Not sure what change he is referring to?

I so wish there was a laughing icon on Mumsnet.
What a great phrase 🤣🎯

He doesn't sound like he's changed at all. He's used to using you and everything you bring to a relationship. And you know his kids haven't changed. His end goal here is to move he and his kids back into your home. Your children didn't blend well and he was a hypocrite wanting his with him all the time while trying to push yours to be with his dad more so your son would slowly be pushed out of his home.

You're left with anxiety and frustration and there is no comfort in your contact because your end goals are incompatible. Neither of you are changing those. So the contact just works to keep you stuck in an unhealthy place. It's a long, drawn out, painful end instead of a clean break.

Block him on your holiday. You're going with your son, don't give your ex your headspace in this time. Your son deserves you at your best and contact with ex drains you as surely as living with him did.