Can we just be honest and say many women are trapped

[workiskillingme]

In unhappy relationships /marriages for years due to housing /income

I read so many threads on here advising people to leave their marriage if they are unhappy and live the life they deserve but in reality
A) women are often part time lower earners and wouldn't be able to afford to rent a property by themselves
B) couldn't afford to buy their husband /partner out
C) even if they sold their property and had equity would struggle massively to get a mortgage on one income
D) their other half/husband may more than likely refuse to leave the family home and continue to pay the mortgage so the wife and kids can remain there

Can we please just talk about this very real scenario and how women are meant to try and make it work?

Yes @bathsh3ba but if the support was in place the whole experience would be different

Most definitely agree with the op. I'm ashamed to say I used to judge rich celebrities who got divorced seemingly on a whim I used to judge them for being fickle and not taking marriage seriously.

I grew up and saw my own situation and understood better. When you have money as a woman, your own money, you have so many options. You can 'afford' to chase happiness because you have all the resources and that includes childcare, nannies and help around the home. The man becomes an accessory, a source of pleasure and happiness and when he doesn't deliver, getting rid is so easy because the only thing he adds to your life is love and fun, you do not need him for financial security or for practical help. Boy do I wish I were a millionairess! The choices and decisions I would make about my life would be so very different. I'd be a different woman. A happier woman, I think.

Therefore sex and a relationship come with a risk of pregnancy that the woman has to consider more than the man does.

I would disagree with this. Men need to consider it more as they get no say in whether the pregnancy goes ahead

This is me. I was actually independently wealthy prior to marriage but regardless I feel well and truly trapped because my children being with my husband half of the time will absolutely ruin them. Look at the likes of someone like Kanye West, would you want your children around him without you? My husband is far less involved in their lives whilst I'm married to him and that is what's best for my children, so I will continue to remain trapped

But they can walk away and no one cares or judges him.
Or be an absent dad or physically stay, but not actually be involved dad and once again : no one cares.

Mums are free to do this as well, technically. I know it’s unfashionable on here to point out women hold nearly all the cards in choosing to have kids but it’s the truth.

@Cuppasoupmonster I agree with you on the score that men's views should be taken into consideration when choosing to get pregnant or to abort a pregnancy.

I don't think it should be just about the woman, but about balancing the rights of woman, man and child/foetus. That's a hugely unpopular idea on here but I stand by it.

I still think women worry more about getting pregnant though than men worry about getting a woman pregnant. Even your monthly period is a reminder of the possibility. Women's lives are dominated by their fertility in a way men's are not.

I don’t think men should have a say in termination as such, although I think it would be wise for them to be honest so the woman knows what level of support she can expect from him and factor this in.

Children are conceived in all sorts of ways - moments of passion, contraceptive failures, ‘forgetting’ to take the pill, actually forgetting to take the pill, not trying but not preventing etc… on here you would be forgiven for believing they’re either planned or the result of a persuasive coercive man looking to spread his seed without consequence.

Asset prices won't go down if the global economy continues to print billions of dollars every year. We can't stop printing as we need an ever increasing money supply to pay off the old debt. Bit of a chicken and egg situation but ultimately asset prices will continue to rise.

We could have better safety nets in place so single parents can not only survive but thrive however that would mean higher taxes which most people aren't in favour of. We also don't want to penalise the 2 parent household as in healthy relationships that is shown to be beneficial for children.

I'm not sure what the answer is. As I said before, the birthrate in western countries is decreasing so obviously more and more women are weighing up the pros and cons and deciding to not have children. That results in another set of problems too however.

It's really tricky.

Thank you @Dinosaurs23 that’s so kind. Im so sorry about your little boy. Of course you think about them every day. I think we always will. After losing my big baby (they were 24 weeks - I did actually get Mat pay and that’s what I’ve lived on most of the year), every time I hear about a late loss (early losses too but particularly late) I think about how the world will miss that person and their contribution so much, even if not that many people know about that little life. I’m sure he is so so loved. Thank you so much for your encouragement too —

Hm that seems not to have fully posted, but it says I feel positive that I will get out and make a great life! And more than anything this experience has taught me is that so little in life is truly within our control. I think those who don’t realise that are usually the very lucky ones.

apologies if this double posts after all that!

im going to come live with you both in that commune if that’s okay!

Except taxes don’t have to come from taxing people….
choices are made. Like nit having a wi DF all tax fur energy companies when said companies have said themselves they are in favour of.
like jetting companies get away with not paying all the taxes they owe. The ami(t if fraud from companies is staggering.
like not having non domiciled people - just wife was supposed to pay £20 millions each year. How many people are non domiciled??

When you want to find the money you can.
Its a choice to not support single mothers, people on low wages, disabled etc etc

I agree, especially so with young children. My marriage is not problem free but overall my husband (seems to be) honest, hardworking and helpful, good father too. Something happens? I’m totally screwed. I was a SAHM for many years and some people say it was my choice. But how much of a choice was it? When you just moved countries following your husband, had two births with complications and dealt with children one of whom had developmental delays. My only reasoning was to actually raise my children to school age and be there for them and I’m paying the price. Career’s gone, working for a nearly min wages and no pension in sight. If I’m divorced, my quality of life would be nil.

@Iknowforsure1 would it be nil or just not as comfortable as you would want it to be? You would presumably be entitled to half of the house, and would be entitled to things like UC top ups in a minimum wage job.

Not sure if this has been said but many women also don't want to separate as they don't trust the kids dad to parent them properly without the mother there, in a shared custody situation. I've seen it on here many times.

@Cuppasoupmonster
I’ll be honest, I don’t know. We live modest lives already, however we are comfortable in our small mortgaged property working hard to pay it off. I know we are privileged already. I was stupid enough not to know about the child benefit (no one mentioned it to me and I’m not from the UK originally), so I didn’t even claim it and missed out on NI contributions towards my pension. I now work full time after fighting so hard to even get into employment and am on track somehow, but I’m late thirties. I still have to support my DH’s career choices because it’s his wage that pays most of everything, so my work has to be around the school hours. We now do have some small rainy day savings, we are paying off the mortgage but I can imagine if we are separated, it will go extra quickly. I know that my rent alone would probably be double our mortgage and I know nothing about benefits, I feel trapped knowing that one day something happens. I do accept though that I’m catastrophising things a bit but I do feel worried.

Absolutely Agree.

Ltb is banded around on here so often with little thought on what women will be able to do after leaving.

Why shouldn’t it be a trap still if the woman on leaving would have to live somewhere less comfortable than she does? Smaller is fine, less extra cash to spend, but are we saying that a woman has to be facing total poverty on splitting for us to have sympathy for her? I still feel it’s wrong for a couple to contribute 50% each of the work of the household/family (I’m counting pregnancy, labour and being a SAHM as work) and for the woman to end up scraping by if she leaves, while the guy pulls the strings. We as a culture do acknowledge that taking care of kids and house is work because in divorces assets are often split 50/50. And if we can do that AFTER marriage why can’t we do that DURING marriage and/or partnerships that result in children? So the guy goes out and earns his 40k and it’s culturally common for the workplace to ask “and is your partner at home?” and for the guy to say “yes here is her bank account”. The money goes in 50/50 to each of their accounts, resulting in lower taxation on the money (a little benefit the guy might be interested in!). And then because it’s a cultural norm, women know if they become SAHM it’s expected the guy’s workplace will start splitting his salary and sending it to her directly. Why not? Because I do agree with the Op. This is such a pervasive problem it feels like our culture should be built around fixing it.

@NoodleSoup12 so how would you legislate for SAHMs after divorce? What do you think is fair? There seems to be an expectation on Mn that the ‘basic lifestyle’ we should expect even if on benefits or out of work for years, is a very comfortable one with treats/holidays/savings.

Life literally cannot work that way, as I’m sure you know. If somebody has been out of the workplace for 10+ years, they’re not going to be highly employable going back. That said, some women will always work minimum wage jobs because that’s all their skills set and abilities permit, and even if they don’t take time to be a SAHM, will not life comfortable lives. Ditto men. Is that not okay as well?

No, I don’t feel sorry for somebody who chooses to divorce and then has a slightly less middle class lifestyle than before. As long as they live in adequate accommodation, have access to healthcare and a reasonable budget for food etc (which is what UC is designed for) then I don’t feel sorry for them, they’re already ‘richer’ than a lot of the world.

A lot of Mn have serious issues understanding choices, consequences and life in general.

If a man demanded half a woman’s salary straight to his bank account as a SAHD we would call it ‘financial abuse’ and him a ‘cocklodger’.

I think I'd be ok financially, even accounting for the extra it would now cost me to buy him out because of the interest rate rises. But I don't want to send the kids to him for however many nights, as if he's suddenly going to become a competent parent. I feel as if I'll be punishing them for something I want. So here I am.

This is exactly how I feel. I feel that I'd be selfishly putting my own happiness before my children's. If I can't put up with certain things, why on earth should they?

This is why I made sure I could support myself and any children before I got married.

also why I did not give up work at any point. I went part time for 3 years while kids were in nursery, then back full time after. As did dh.

dh could walk out tomorrow and I’d be fine financially.

i do often think that sahm is a choice many women make without considering the full implications- loss of pension, difficulty getting back into the workplace, total dependence, and as you say, the trapped thing.

This is me. I now love my home more than my husband. Our mortgage is going to go up over £350 next year, we can barely afford that rise as a couple. Let alone if i was a single parent and In a much much worse housing situation. We live in a 3 bed semi, nothing special. I couldn't afford a one bed flat with no garden alone and I would probably paying similar to what im paying now but on one wage. It wouldnt be doable with everything else to pay for.
And i dont even earn a particularly low wage (30k northern England) its bleak!
I cant put my child through the financial turmoil that splitting up would bring.