Can we just be honest and say many women are trapped

[workiskillingme]

In unhappy relationships /marriages for years due to housing /income

I read so many threads on here advising people to leave their marriage if they are unhappy and live the life they deserve but in reality
A) women are often part time lower earners and wouldn't be able to afford to rent a property by themselves
B) couldn't afford to buy their husband /partner out
C) even if they sold their property and had equity would struggle massively to get a mortgage on one income
D) their other half/husband may more than likely refuse to leave the family home and continue to pay the mortgage so the wife and kids can remain there

Can we please just talk about this very real scenario and how women are meant to try and make it work?

I agree. Men are often treated pretty badly from what I have seen.

We really need to educate women to ensure that they have the means to support themselves and that they don't compromise their independence for a man.

Girls need to be encouraged into long term careers with prospects and to ensure they do not have children until they have the protection of marriage to a man who will support them to continue their career. Then they need to protect their earning potential.

Shared parental leave needs to be used, more women need to insist men cut their hours to take on some childcare, and they must avoid giving up their earning potential without adequate safeguards.

We need to stop shouting down warnings about maintaining independence and encouraging women to plan for the possibility that they may need to support themselves (not just divorce, death too).

Obviously there will be exceptions but informed consent before giving up independence and the knowledge to protect themselves is key.

@5128gap well yes of course….
Because most women will think that the best decision they can take is leave, with their dcs and condemn to a life in poverty until they can earn some money themselves.
Uprooting them in the process (cheaper area)
And wuth the consequence it will have in the children re education, job etc… (look at the relation between child attainment at school and poverty(

But yay. It’s just women choosing to stay because they want home comfort and it’s ‘bad enough’ actually…

I have a long term career, it pays well ish.

I’d still struggle alone.

We really need to educate women to ensure that they have the means to support themselves and that they don't compromise their independence for a man.

Except we are also asking women to STILL be the default parent, look after the dcs, go part time because nursery is too expensive, and do all the accommodation work wise (eg children off school ill) that will stop them from developing their career and be ‘independent’ from their DP.
It’s easy to blame women for not carry on working full time when the whole system is based on women being at home.

This.

although my mother wasn’t trapped we did live in poverty for quite a few years. And she got a very good divorce settlement. Or rather good for what they had between them.

It wasn’t going to happen to me, so when exh (of 15 years) went down the conspiracy rabbit hole and became paranoid to the point he became abusive, it took me a while to sort my finances but I was able to leave.

6 years later I earn quite a bit more so we are, financially, fine. DS is ND but it’s not huge hurdle for us. Obviously, where a child has high needs, even the best laid plans can go wrong. But I do think many women play an active part in putting themselves in this position. Not all, but many.

However, CoL is going to leave more women trapped. I do believe that the majority can get out. But it could take years of planning.

It does depend why you're leaving - as some have said - if you're fleeing abuse then you probably are prepared to put up with a huge drop in income - and so will your kids, because you and they will have realised that feeling secure and loved is more important than any other need.

However this often gets skewed by a father who manipulates the children by playing Disney dad etc.

Whereas if you're leaving because of lesser marital problems, it must seem difficult to know which way to jump.

It’s men that need schooling on parental responsibility, the mental load, not putting their careers before their wives.

Women know all this. It’s the patriarchal system we’re stuck in that shafts us.

I agree with many of the points about mainting independence but realistically most people cant earn more than average.
So I dont think its realistic to suggest all women must be earning enough to afford a mortgage on a 2 / 3 bed property and 50% childcare alone before having children because for large bits of the country that would require above average earnings.

I agree OP.

I read posts and think, don't they talk, why did you have kids with him, why give up your career for him....

We do this to ourselves, we don't value ourselves so how can we expect anyone else to? We need more sisterhood. Stop being negative about women, stop thinking she's fat, she's skinny, she's ugly, she's x, y, z. She's a person. Get to know her and support her (unless she's a complete bitch/narcissist /user in which case cut her free after telling her how she behaves.)

I had kids cos my biology told me I had to - did anyone else have that? I was 35yo and 36yo when I had mine. Then I wanted no more until I hit 38yo and it happened again, but thankfully my DH had already had a vasectomy.

I am a career woman, my hubby was a SAHD after we tried running 2 careers with little kids and he thought my career was going to be better than his. I married a rare diamond and feel so lucky, but it's now made me pause in finding a new partner following his death in 2016. I am def not looking for a layabout, control freak, tight wad, narcissist, assaulter or hooligan. Not that many men left then methinks....!

Those pleas get us accused of classism and sahm shaming, despite many of us having been sahm and coming from a variety of backgrounds

Yup - that's happened to me over the years of posting on MN. As I said before, I'll stop posting in that vein when I stop seeing posts from the vulnerable and the trapped.

For good measure, let's add to that that even women who are qualified professionals will be met with suspicion if and when to return on the job market after a break. They need to start from scratch again because all the knowledge and experience has leaked out of their heads whilst giving birth. Pffff

I'm not sure why you're directing your sarcasm at me. There is no judgement in my post.
I'm merely pointing out that those who stay have decided that the issues you mention are worse than remaining in the marriage, while other women make different choices.

There was a lot of judgement in your post to be honest, @5128gap .

If you genuinely were not aware of the very loaded language you were using fair enough but I don’t see how you couldn’t be.

Definitely. Economic independence for women is critical, but schools (and parents) don't teach it, plus there is lingering misinformation who gets what after divorce, plus there's too much emphasis on 'do what you love, something creative' etc amongst girls which pushes them towards lower paying careers from the start, plus our economy makes it harder and harder for solo people to exist.

In a way it's amazing that marriage as a way of escaping women's economic limitations hasn't died out, but instead it seems to become a more and more attractive option, given the difficulties of life today.

I read posts and think, don't they talk, why did you have kids with him, why give up your career for him...
If only it was that simple.

Yup.

Remember to tell your daughters they don't have to have kids.

Those women are trapped yes. The next generation matters. Choosing a partner is as important as all life's big choices, but we don't treat it as such, and this is the real issue.

Well there is always a way of leaving

For some women, leaving might literally mean being homeless. The council won’t house a woman without dependent children, and if hers are adults or stay with dad, she’s on her own.

Renting is a non-starter. I am a landlord, believe me, I know. My house, which is a very ordinary three bed terrace in quite a run down town in the midlands, has a rental value of over £700 p/m. Added to which, there are a lot of people hunting for properties and not many homes.

In the end it comes down to the woman's own perception as to which is the least worst, which will vary based in her own cost/benefit analysis of her relationship and of the alternative.

It isn’t purely about cost, it’s about practicalities.

My marriage is mostly happy. But if it was to end - I don’t want to lose custody of my children EOW. I don’t want to alternate holidays like Christmas, I don’t want to disagree about education, pocket money, chores, I don’t think anyone can say raising children in a partnership that’s gone wrong is easy.

But yes, I agree many of us percieve ourselves as trapped, because we don't want our freedom enough to move to a rented flat/bedsit and claim benefits or work a low paid job

You’d be lucky to get a rented flat or bedsit. And yes, it’s a miserable life that quickly leads to low level depression.

It would be more honest and realistic to agree that many people are trapped in relationships they’d rather not be in.

We hear of plenty of cocklodger men, many of whom are probably staying in their relationships because they have no way of housing themselves properly if they have children. There will be plenty of decent men that stay in their relationship because they don’t want to screw over the mother of their children or break up their families. There are countless reasons why people stay in relationships that aren’t working well.

@Nearlymorning
My marriage is mostly happy. But if it was to end - I don’t want to lose custody of my children EOW. I don’t want to alternate holidays like Christmas, I don’t want to disagree about education, pocket money, chores, I don’t think anyone can say raising children in a partnership that’s gone wrong is easy

No one is remotely saying it's easy. But sometimes you have to choose the least worst option.

The rest of my post said that we need to ensure that our men are supportive of our careers before having children and that men need to play their part with shared parental leave and flexible working.

This is really important to avoid women being disadvantaged in their career but so many women won't consider it because they want the time at home.

If men took parental leave after women returned to work women wouldn't so frequently be left doing everything they did while on maternity plus their job.

Sounds like nonscence when in 90% of cases children end up with their mums and then mums get CMS/benefits and assets. Easy for a woman to leave. If it wasn't they wouldn't be filing for divorce in 80% of cases.

And the ‘least worst’ option is often staying put!

Absolutely spot on. I'd like to think I've got a good head on my shoulders but how I wish I'd heard of Mumsnet before getting married/having children so I'd have double armed myself. Society as a whole entraps women in all kinds of scenarios.