Potty training support for a four-year-old starting school in September

[DearDog96]

Hi all,

DD is 4 and is showing no signs of being ready to train yet which is concerning me as she’s due to be starting school in September. We’ve had a few failed attempts in the past, and she just doesn’t seem to be getting the hang of knowing when she needs to go. The doctors and HV have been supportive and keep giving me all these different tactics to try but to no avail and since I’ve recently had another baby we’ve resorted back to nappies again.

Please don’t come for me, I know she’s late to be trained! Just looking for some support, tips, and to know I’m not the only one still having to change a 4 year old x

4 years is a long time!

You need to just do it now, no more nappies in the day, no more just changing her and telling her it’s okay. She needs to use the toilet or she needs to help clean herself up if she has an accident.

It sounds like you’re not ready rather than she’s not. She’s not just going to magically potty train herself when its easier and more comfortable for her to just let you deal with it.

Reception age children can be mean, there would definitely be laughing and teasing towards the children wearing nappies and having accidents in my kids school no matter how much much parents and teachers try to shut it down. It’s better she’s made uncomfortable at home with you than at school.

Here’s the thing, OP. If you’re sure there are no medical or SEN issues then you just have to pick a method, stick to it and mean it.

The most important factor in all of this is you. You need to show her calm, consistent, confident, firm leadership that toilet training is now happening, and there is no going back.

I think you’re sort of looking for the magic ingredient with all of these threads, but it is actually you.

I say that not to be unkind - far from it - but to help you see your own power and role in this situation.

Preschoolers is not the age where kids train! It’s toddler age.

'Potty training' is often talked about as if it's a one off event - one day the child is in nappies, the next they are reliably using a potty/toilet. Once I potty trained my own child I realised it's much more of a process and it differs for every child. My child was out of nappies well before his third birthday, but only became fully independent with toileting around his 5th birthday. Because not wetting/pooing themselves is only the start of it (my child mastered that part quickly). But he continued to need support to clean properly with toilet paper, to use a toilet cubicle, to remember to flush toilet, to wash and dry hands properly etc. So more than a 2 year journey for us.

OP, hopefully you can fast track a lot of this with a 4 year old. Confidence and independence is key. Try to give her lots of experience with different toilets, toilet cubicles over the next few weeks. Even kids who have been out of nappies for years can have accidents in the first week of Reception due to being too distracted or shy to use toilet (my son is very shy with unknown adults).

This is key. 6 weeks is the blink of an eye, and for a child who was trained between the age of 2 and 3, they’ve had all that time not only to learn how to go on a potty and their toilet at home, but also toilets at nursery, at friends/family houses, in various cafes and restaurants, at the park and so on.

These children have also had a year at least already to practice physically sorting themselves out in the toilet. There’s a lot of work after simply getting them to pee and poo in a toilet. They then learn how to reliably sort their clothes, flush, wipe, and wash their hands. Wiping takes a long time to perfect and it’s so unfair on the child at school if they cannot clean themselves well enough on their own.

You've been given advice! What more do you need?

You're the one expecting it!!! That's the whole problem!!!

I would do everything to defer and put her in preschool for a year. The transition from home to school will be very difficult for her.
I am confused as to why you keep her coddled until the last minute. Developmental milestones are there for a reason and they help the child. I find your approach more parent centric than child.

Wow that's not a usual school response. What a waste of teachers time to be changing nappies on a 4 year old. And your poor child potentially going to school in nappies because you couldn't be bothered to put the work in to teach her how to use a toilet

I’d advise some reading from child development professionals then.

There’s a boy in one of my DC’s years, going into year 6. He’s still teased about wearing nappies in reception! Someone farts ‘oh it’s X done another poo in his nappy’ , class laughs, teaches have been trying to shut it down from reception but it absolutely sticks with a child. No SEN involved with this child, just wishy washy parents who cruelly let him start school in nappies. Honestly, what do this parents think will happen?! Bullying isn’t nice, but some children will bully and it’s guaranteed in this situation.

It's against the advice I received from nurses too. I was advised to put my DS on the toilet every hour whilst he was wearing pull ups then move to underwear. Advice changes, with my older ones pull ups were strongly advised against because they were said to confuse children. I think there's conflicting advice because it isn't a one size fits all, different children need different approaches.

Yes similar in our school, child who wore pull-ups to a sleepover had to move school due to bullying. My dd has had the one time she wet herself in reception brought up many times years later though thankfully she can laugh about it too.

There doesn’t seem to be much concern for the child’s self esteem and friendships in this thread because they are going to be deeply impacted if it’s not sorted. Yes it’s a nuisance and puts unnecessary pressure on the teachers but they are grown up and will cope as it’s their job.

Not helpful. I’ve tried a lot of the advice already to no avail

I’m really not. If you read rather than jumping down my throat so easily you’d see I was talking about it’s better to have her in pull ups in school than wetting on the carpet etc. I’m sure if the teachers had to choose between the two they’d choose the pull ups (not that it should get to that stage at all of course).

Yes I’ve made mistakes, yes I’ve prioritised comfort and convenience but I can’t do much about that now.

I think that really is the key, your child's delays have nothing to do with her so-called readiness and more to do with your and your DH's parenting choices and "anything for a quiet life" approach. In addition to being in nappies at well over 4 years old, your child still has a bottle at night and a dummy "mainly" when she's tired or upset (meaning other times too, presumably). None of these things are good for her or appropriate for a typically developing child.

In the abstract there's nothing wrong with a child starting school without having attended nursery or pre-school, but in your case does this mean that you have little contact with other children? Do you have friends with kids the same age as your DD, does your DD have friends to play with? Being around a variety of other kids on a regular basis can be instructive for both parents and children, in the sense that you become aware of typical development, as well as the solidarity of working through issues together.

In your shoes, I'd ditch the nappies, the bottle, and the dummy in one fell swoop. The fact that you have a newborn can actually work to your advantage. You can talk about all the things that are just for babies, like her little sibling. And then talk up all the things that she can do because she's such a big girl, and the baby will be so impressed and can't wait to be able to do them too, etc.

I didn’t mean to I was just following her lead. Unfortunately this meant she hung on to comforts for longer than most

Apparently she’s not the only one but I’m trying to not let it get to that at all. Hence why I’m here.

Possibly repeating some other responses but this kind of situation is a huge problem for schools and Reception staff. With the exception of children with significant SEN, ‘readiness for school’ is about independence and being able to access the curriculum on offer. Where a child is in nappies, or even newly toilet trained, significant amounts of staff time is taken away from teaching and learning to help them- meaning that it is not just your child who is impacted by not having this skill secured before arriving. If it is a difficult feat for you, at home, with no objectives, timetabling commitments or up to 29 other children (of varying abilities) to not just care for but actually teach with measurable progress, then it is impossible for school staff. Budgets are stretched and there is simply no additional support. Staff are left with no other option under their duty of care to just get on with it.

Please bear in mind that there may also be other children who have not been toilet trained for exactly the same reasons as your DD. Viewing this situation with just your own personal perspective means that there is a lack of awareness of the bigger picture. I’m sure, when your child is in school, you will expect them to have the excellent quality of education that they are entitled to and that begins with support from home.

All said with the best intentions- to ensure that your DD and the pupils in her class have got off to the best start in such a crucial stage of their education. Do her new teachers know she is not toilet trained yet?

Yes they do and they’ve said she’s not the only one

Yes I have many friends with kids a similar age and so she’s often mixing with a variety of kids both her own age as well as older or younger. She knows how to play with them, share etc.

but good advice re taking it all away at once. Do you think this will be too much transition for her though? Definitely a good idea to use the baby to my advantage to make her seem more grown up etc. thank you x

In your earlier thread this year, once you had advice I thought you had ditched the dummy at least. Why did they reappear? And the bottle? You must confuse your DD with all the stopping and starting. You say the school holidays are 6 weeks so plenty of time, but your original post was months ago and nothing has changed

I’ve read your threads before and I have to say I’m quite surprised you have friends with kids similar ages. Have you not noticed that most of them would have got rid of bottles at 1, toilet trained around 2/2 and a half? I can understand not having a lot of experience with children but then you kinda take your lead from those around you.

I don’t say this to kick you while you’re down, more so that you don’t repeat the same mistakes with the new baby but for a typically developing four year old it is absolutely not normal for them to still have a bottle, be using nappies or a dummy. It’s really hard to get them to give them up but it only gets harder as they get older so definitely easier to fight the battle when they’re younger!

It's great that your DD has friends and lots of experience playing with other children. That should make the transition to school much smoother for her.

I really wouldn't worry about removing everything at once (nappies, bottle, dummy). Sometimes I think a slow and gradual approach can actually make changes more difficult for children. I'd just keep telling her that children of her age don't use those things, they're meant for babies and she's such a big girl, she's starting school soon, etc. And definitely use the little sibling to your advantage.

I'd start today. Gather up all your DD's dummies and bin them, get rid of her bottles. You don't have to do it in front of her or make a big performance of it, but if she asks for a dummy or bottle, just repeat matter-of-factly that you don't have any and continue the script of things for babies, etc.