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Original poster

Why is Sandi Toksvig so interested in the C of E?

1000 replies

Sausagenbacon · 28/01/2023 11:15

and why does Justin Welby bother with her?

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/26/sandi-toksvig-laments-untenable-church-of-england-stance-on-gay-marriage

She's not a christian, but feels entitled to have a chummy chat with the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is wet enough to indulge her.

I'm not particularly invested in the subject, and I am an Anglican, but I do think there is something frankly, pitiful about it.

I expect an article in next week's Guardian with a sad-faced Sandy talking about how the local Mosque/Synagogue won't marry her and her partner, and how 'unsafe' she now feels. Or not.

OP posts:
ShodanLives · 20/02/2023 19:11

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 19:09

So ShodanLives comment that people would choose to be gay and be persecuted for it isn't necessarily true.

That's the opposite of what I said.

MeganTheeScallion · 20/02/2023 19:14

@ShodanLives yeah I thought it didn't chime with what you've been saying! I've found your posts to be quite clear, I think. How odd...

@echoesacrosstheether highlights that it is not so unusual that people will still make choices they know they will be persecuted for.
Okay well in this context I definitely do NOT think sexuality is a choice.
Whether sexuality changes...Well, I still don't know, but I do know that change does not always equal choice.

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 19:16

Please note my correction in the very next post!!!

MeganTheeScallion · 20/02/2023 19:18

@echoesacrosstheether oh flipping heck, sorry i missed that!! I shouldn't MN while very tired! Sorry.

But I still don't think it's a choice, IMO.

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 19:19

"So why exactly would someone decide to be gay in a place where that is punishable by death?"

@ShodanLives

For a very similar reason someone would choose to remain a Christian and be put to death for it. Or Catholic or Protestant. Or do you think religious belief is not a choice either?

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 19:23

"But I still don't think it's a choice, IMO."

@MeganTheeScallion which I accept as your opinion but thank you for making it clear this is your opinion and not established fact.

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 19:30

"It's just word salad"

@ShodanLives
Is there any hope that you can understand something you have already decided you disagree with? The cognitive dissonance really pains some people sadly. Try to hold onto that cognitive dissonance for long enough to understand what is actually being said instead of dismissing it as 'word salad'. Well, actually salad is pretty good for you, you've just got to chew it over properly for it to digest. 😉

ShodanLives · 20/02/2023 19:38

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 19:19

"So why exactly would someone decide to be gay in a place where that is punishable by death?"

@ShodanLives

For a very similar reason someone would choose to remain a Christian and be put to death for it. Or Catholic or Protestant. Or do you think religious belief is not a choice either?

Religious belief being a choice doesn't make sexuality one.

I'll ask again. Why exactly would someone choose to be gay when it could get them killed?

ShodanLives · 20/02/2023 19:39

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 19:30

"It's just word salad"

@ShodanLives
Is there any hope that you can understand something you have already decided you disagree with? The cognitive dissonance really pains some people sadly. Try to hold onto that cognitive dissonance for long enough to understand what is actually being said instead of dismissing it as 'word salad'. Well, actually salad is pretty good for you, you've just got to chew it over properly for it to digest. 😉

There is not much hope of me understanding something that is deliberately vague and confusing, no.

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 19:51

"I'll ask again. Why exactly would someone choose to be gay when it could get them killed?"

@ShodanLives for the same reason people would choose a religious belief that would get them killed.

MeganTheeScallion · 20/02/2023 19:54

@echoesacrosstheether what's the reason?

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 19:58

@MeganTheeScallion, love?

Or if it's not a choice compulsion.

ShodanLives · 20/02/2023 20:04

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 19:51

"I'll ask again. Why exactly would someone choose to be gay when it could get them killed?"

@ShodanLives for the same reason people would choose a religious belief that would get them killed.

Which is...

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 20:07

@ShodanLives, if a choice it's love. Since love cannot be forced. If not a choice compulsion, which is more akin to addiction than love.

MeganTheeScallion · 20/02/2023 20:11

@echoesacrosstheether how do you define love?

ShodanLives · 20/02/2023 20:11

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 20:07

@ShodanLives, if a choice it's love. Since love cannot be forced. If not a choice compulsion, which is more akin to addiction than love.

Love of what? Being gay? Someone thinks 'hmm I love in a country where I could get the death penalty but I think I'll be gay because I love the idea?'

And again, addiction to what?

Once again, word salad.

ShodanLives · 20/02/2023 20:13

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 20:07

@ShodanLives, if a choice it's love. Since love cannot be forced. If not a choice compulsion, which is more akin to addiction than love.

Also, how can sexual orientation be a choice if love isn't?

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 20:15

@ShodanLives, love of the person they are in a gay relationship with. Otherwise who could prove they were gay? Addiction as it being akin to compulsion, and the compulsion would be for same sex sexual contact in the absence of any feelings of choice about the matter.

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 20:17

"Also, how can sexual orientation be a choice if love isn't"

@ShodanLives, I believe love is a choice.

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 20:18

Because love is greater than compulsion.

ShodanLives · 20/02/2023 20:27

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 20:15

@ShodanLives, love of the person they are in a gay relationship with. Otherwise who could prove they were gay? Addiction as it being akin to compulsion, and the compulsion would be for same sex sexual contact in the absence of any feelings of choice about the matter.

But they wouldn't be in love with someone of the same sex if they weren't already gay or bisexual, but your saying they would chose to be gay or bisexual because they're in love with the same sex? That doesn't make sense.

ShodanLives · 20/02/2023 20:28

echoesacrosstheether · 20/02/2023 20:17

"Also, how can sexual orientation be a choice if love isn't"

@ShodanLives, I believe love is a choice.

Why wouldnsomeone chose to fall in love with someone of the same sex when they could get them killed?

ShodanLives · 20/02/2023 20:29

Bruuuuhhhh · 20/02/2023 20:15

So what's you're point? They shouldn't have allowed blessings?

ImnotanumberIAMAFREEMAN · 20/02/2023 20:30

I'm starting to get dizzy...

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