Why is Sandi Toksvig so interested in the C of E?

[Sausagenbacon]

and why does Justin Welby bother with her?

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/26/sandi-toksvig-laments-untenable-church-of-england-stance-on-gay-marriage

She's not a christian, but feels entitled to have a chummy chat with the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is wet enough to indulge her.

I'm not particularly invested in the subject, and I am an Anglican, but I do think there is something frankly, pitiful about it.

I expect an article in next week's Guardian with a sad-faced Sandy talking about how the local Mosque/Synagogue won't marry her and her partner, and how 'unsafe' she now feels. Or not.

"experience attraction before love"

@ShodanLives without any love at all not even the basic love and regard most would afford another human being? This is what I mean when I say in the absence of love.

you don't believe in love at first sight then? I loved my DH the moment I met him.

so you glimpsed a total stranger and made an active choice to love him romantically despite knowing nothing about him?

well that’s erm… unusual

If you read my posts you might infer correctly I have an amount of love and respect for everyone. (Even those I disagree with.😉)

Or not
😂😂😂😂

@FurAndFeathers is it? It's not unheard of hence the saying.

I was talking morr about falling in love but no, they don't, at least in my experience. I feel attracted to people I have seen and never talk to, people I've seen in films, people I barely know, people whose profile I've seen on dating apps. I don't love any of them.

And it is attraction in the absence of any love I find disturbing, as I said earlier. This would be the kind of biological urge which is pursued with all disregard for the other party.

Why is that disturbing as long as there is mutual consent and both parties are of an age to consent? I've never understood that. We are biological beings (amongst other things) and we are equipped to take pleasure in things. I had a long term FWB relationship with a guy when I was at uni. We were friends, we had sex, it was great. We went into it with eyes open. He met someone, so we scrapped the B and stayed F.

@ShodanLives

You see the people I feel attraction to on TV usually play characters I fall in love with. Such as Ragnar in Vikings. But not Travis Fimmel in other dramas or simply photos of him apart from hooters of him as Ragnar. Simply the character Ragnar as he played him in Vikings. Which includes a hefty amount of fiction in it, I know, so it's an illusionary sort of love really.😁

@pointythings, mutual consent infers a degree of love and regard for the other person.

And I've had FWB's type of relationships before I met my DH. I couldn't have had this kind of relationship if they weren't at least friends. Those relationships did end rather badly, though. We didn't really remain close friends or even very much friends at all in some cases.

@echoesacrosstheether well, if you're going to have different 'classes' of love then you can win any argument, can't you? If you're going to say friendship = love then sure, you're right. That's semantics though - I wouldn't have married my FWB, nor he me. Doesn't make what we had wrong, we both remember it fondly and are still in touch. He's divorced, I am widowed, neither of us have any inclination to revisit the past but damn, we made some good memories.

@pointythings, I view love as love but some loves are more intense, all encompassing, devoted and unconditional than others. Love is the ultimate in unity. We can have unity with people to a greater and lesser degree.

except the saying is based on the biologically driven feeling of limerence/attraction

so all you’re doing is proving my point.

or showing a creepy lack of judgement by making an active choice to ‘love’ a stranger based on zero actual knowledge of them

that’s pretty much how stalkers choose to behave

@pointythings, well in a couple of cases of my FWB relationships I was looking for more permanence and exclusivity, which wasn't mutual and in a couple of cases they were. There was a bit of heartache all round really but we were all pretty young.

I think she finds science in general disturbing.

A distasteful reality that inconveniently reminds her she’s mostly just an ape, like the rest of us

@FurAndFeathers I'm getting you're pretty attached to an evolutionary biological perspective on everything? Is there anything you feel that biology cannot explain?

It's all fine with me since I simultaneously believe in both evolution and intelligent design...

"A distasteful reality that inconveniently reminds her she’s mostly just an ape, like the rest of us"

@FurAndFeathers

I'm still here! And I think apes are wonderful intelligent animals. And I think they're capable of love too. 🙂

Is there anything you feel that biology cannot explain?

There are plenty of things that biology cannot explain.

Yet.

@pointythings, you see I see all matter as being like material evidence or like a language. Our reading of it and interpretations of it do not give the full essence or meaning of it - only a reflection of it through our own perceptions. Fascinating stuff though. 🙂

My current non fiction favourite book is 'Entangled Life' by Merlin Sheldrake. Really illustrates how complex fungi's symbiotic relationship with all living matter is. Another favourite is 'Woodlands' by Oliver Rackham... These books just leave me in awe at the complexity of life. A complexity that does not preclude love or free will within anything living.

So you're in love in a fictional character? And fell in love, somehow, before you even had a chance to feel attracted to him? But you think people feeling attracted to people they're not in love with is disturbing?

Of course you do, and we’ve already established that your understanding of evolution is tenuous at best, so I suspect you’re able to believe 6 impossible things before breakfast.

as long as critical thinking isn’t required, I’m sure you’re marvellous at believing in any number of unsubstantiated and contradictory things

To be fair to @echoesacrosstheether , their definition of 'love' isn't the one others are probably working with. Buy that's only adding to the confusion and apparent mixed-messenging.

Yeah well, you can't exactly expect people to know what you're talking about when you make up your own definitions for words.

@ShodanLives true 😆

"Yeah well, you can't exactly expect people to know what you're talking about when you make up your own definitions for words."

@ShodanLives my definition fits in with the OED, I just checked.

And I managed to get a degree in English Language and Literature.

My degree include modules on linguistics, the history of the English language and language acquisition.