FET/IVF July 2023 - Thread 2

[Olivia199]

Right. Sorry I've I missed any of you....!

@10degreessunny
@loulamay
@Lauralozzle
@ASGIRC
@TTCbabyno2in2022
@orchid29
@ttcsolomumtobe
@Walker12
@Bristol1988
@SH998
@Ivfround1
@wtawtaw
@IVFfirsttimer91

It’s not looking good for me.

Last cycle, by 7dp5dt I had started spotting and my boobs completely stopped being sore. Was the start of my period, which was trying to start, but the progesterone stopped it starting properly.

Today I’m 7dp5dt and I’ve spotted some pink on the applicator when using the pessaries this morning. I know that spotting can be normal but this is too much like last time. Boobs are less sore today. I’m still going to test on Monday which is 9dp5dt but it’s not looking good.

@Lauralozzle if there is something I have learnt is that each pregnancy is different. With my first 2 chemical I had vertigo. I didn't have any this time, so I was sure it was going to be negative.

Having said that, I perfectly understand your concern because I am the same! We really have to work on ourselves and our anxiety in these 2ww. Try to be as rational as possible. Spotting can be anything. Wait till Monday and we'll keep fingers crossed 🤞🏻🐞🍀

@Lauralozzle Im so sorry to hear. That must be really tough. Are you thinking of testing?

@Olivia199 @SH998 thanks for your kind words. the spotting has stopped for now so i’m keeping my fingers crossed that it was nothing!

@Charming81 Rationally, I know it’s normal. It was only a very small amount, pinkish colour, on the top of the applicator. One or two small spots mixed in with the waxy gunge. Could be irritation from the pessaries, could be implantation spotting, could just be completely random!

4 years TTC and never seen a BFP. So, sometimes it just feels like this is all a bit futile. I’ve got period like cramps too, but that could be normal.

@orchid29 OTD is Friday 11th. I’m going to test Monday though. That will be 9dp5dt and I’d expect to see a result by then. Unless my period starts properly before, in which case it’s a waste of a FRER and given that they’re like gold dust at the moment I probably won’t test if it gets heavier or bright red.

I might not push the applicator so far up this afternoon… in case that was part of the problem.

@Lauralozzle what kind of investigation have you done over these past 4 years? Sorry if I ask.

@Lauralozzle

I spotted between days 5-10 and thought the worse too, spotting doesn’t always mean a bad thing. Could be implantation spotting. I also still have period like cramps now and have had them since about 7 days after transfer. Both worried the shit out of me so I know how hard it is not to panic.

Your still in with a chance 🤞🏼

@Lauralozzle

How much progesterone are you taking? My 2 failed transfers I bleed within 2/5 days of the transfers. It was clearly obvious it was my period coming and not just mild spotting.

I asked for my progesterone to be increased as I was adamant that the amount I was taking wasn’t enough to hold off my period. I never had progesterone bloods taken so unable to confirm if that was the issue for me. This time my progesterone is through the roof so does make me wonder if this was my past issue.

@Charming81 Sorry if this gets a bit long!
From hospital:
Day 2 & day 21 bloods. All normal.
AMH - 13.6 (17 months ago now) low end of normal, which makes sense with one working ovary.
Internal/external ultrasound - apart from my impossible to see right ovary, all normal.
HSG - all normal, no evidence of blocked tubes.
DH bog standard SA always normal.
No history of STDs so chlamydia tests etc all come back fine.
I also had high prolactin (in the 1,000s) and subclinical under active thyroid that since has been the bane of my life! I was referred to endocrinologist but was discharged as prolactin went down after taking levothyroxine. My thyroid levels since then have jumped though and they’re very slow to go down. I’ve had 3 dose increases in about 5 months.
Official diagnosis - Unexplained.

At IVF clinic:
3D ultrasound - womb is fine, no evidence of fibroids or polyps. Left ovary normal - had AFC of 10. Right ovary, very small, difficult to see, had 1 AFC. Right ovary is basically dud.

We went into our first round with idea of mixed ICSI/IVF split. But they only got 8 eggs, only 6 were mature so went with ICSI. This was on the basis that although we were unexplained- we’d been trying for 3.5 years at this point with nothing so possible fertilisation issues. 2 fertilised - ended up with one crap quality blast. Transferred but BFN.

WTF appointment- consultant said she’s checked with embryologist and eggs did seem fine. No hard shells or anything, the quality looked ok. DH SA was very good for ICSI.

Based on poor fertilisation - advised try AOA next cycle. Switch to short protocol, diff drugs and duel trigger.

More tests: DH had sperm SOS test (oxidative stress test). Not quite a DNA frag test, but high stress points to the likelihood of DNA fragmentation. That came back positive- not massively positive but above normal. Think upper range of normal was about 5 and DH was about 11. Higher range was above 20 or something.

Proxeed for both of us for 3 months and advised to try zymot chip (like an obstacle course for sperm so they only pick best ones)

So, we’re unexplained but it’s really both of us - I have one ovary that works and DH has stressed sperm coupled with fertilisation issues.

This second round has been much more positive, 1 decent blast transferred, 2 frozen. All 8 eggs this time mature. Fertilisation jumped from 33% to 50% but blast rate from that much improved.

I suppose if this round fails I’ll start asking about immunes.

@SH998 Thank you. I know it’s normal. I’m just in a glass half empty mood today! I upped my progesterone myself! I’m taking 1000mg (I think it’s mg). My protocol only says 600mg (1 200mg pessary x3 times a day) but I’m doubling up twice a day. This was because of the spotting last time! I had some spare from last time so thought why not?

@Lauralozzle I think that in the UK they don't really investigate as they should.
Did you amd you husband did a "genetic mapping"? We call it this way in Italian, I hope it makes sense in English as well.

Then did you have a thrombophilia screen?

• Antithrombin (previously called Antithrombin III)
• Protein C
• Protein S
• Lupus Anticoagulant
• Factor V Leiden
• Prothrombin Gene Mutation
• anti-β-2-Glycoprotein-1 antibodies
• anti-Cardiolipin antibodies

I did even more than these.

Have you ever had an Hysteroscopy? Emma and Alice test?

Unfortunately I did all these test in Italy and it was my choice because in the UK they were not just listening to me. Only to prove them I was right. Especially with the Hysteroscopy because I had a chronic infection and also hyperplasia amd non of these could ne seen with normal screening.

@Lauralozzle as long as progesterone is OK, I would have upped them myself too if I had spares lol 😂

@Charming81 Nope, I think further level tests like those are something we’ll ask about if this round doesn’t work. They tend to advise of them after a couple of tries rather than before first/second cycle. The consultant basically said the first transfer really didn’t have much chance as the quality was so poor.

It all gets a bit expensive though, we’ve already had to take out a loan for this cycle package and we don’t earn enough money to be spending £££££££. We’re definitely not in the financial position to be spending ££££££ + for round after round and tons of tests. Which is frustrating that these are not available on the NHS or just cheaper lol. Emma/Alice tests are like £1.4k - with ERA it’s about £1.7k - that alone would take us about 4 months to save. That’s another trouble with going private now, the cost. Can’t really go abroad with work. I don’t have the holiday for it and couldn’t afford special leave with no pay! Don’t have enough time on my side to save up for everything!

We’ll really have to consider the costs of additional testing and pick and choose carefully. I’ve never had hysteroscopy.

@Lauralozzle I am so sorry everything is so complicated. Abroad is all a lot cheaper.

Hysteroscopy in the UK was over 2k. In Italy I did it for €300 (about £260-170). It is cheaper to pay for plane tickets. Unbelievable.

Obviously I hope for you it will be successful this time! I really, really hope it for you 🤞🏻🐞🍀

@Lauralozzle sorry you are feeling this way, I agree with others that there could be lots of explanations for the spotting, but it's totally understandable why you are worried after last time. Really hope you get your bfp this time.

@Charming81 Thanks. Yes, hopefully it’s fine. I’ve calmed down a bit now.

@Walker12 Thanks.

No blood on the applicator for this afternoon’s pessary. 🤞

Hey lovelies, I haven't checked in for a bit as on the August page now due to my later IVF but have been reading all your posts and keeping 🤞🏻. I've had my EC and have a time on Monday as a possible day 3 transfer. A pessary related question, mine are vaginal only and 3 times a day since EC. Does anyone know what you do about taking them on the day off transfer? Would you delay it till after or still go ahead as normal? Thanks in advance

@ttcsolomumtobe I took my progesterone about 6AM day of transfer and that should have given it enough time to absorb. Transfer was about 11:00AM.

I woke up this morning to painful period cramps, I have a light flow, boob tenderness has completely gone. Bleeding is dark red, rather than bright red but definitely not brown. I’ll test in the morning but I don’t have my hopes up. Clinic isn’t open today, but I’ll leave them a message tomorrow. I’m pretty sure it’s my period.

At least I have x2 frozen, so x2 more attempts before I have to start egg collection again.

@ttcsolomumtobe - Congratulations on EC! Hope transfer goes well. Would love to still see your updates!
I took mine in the morning but held off the afternoon one until after.
They'll give you a clean anyway. What times your transfer?

@Lauralozzle - Oh Laura I'm so so sorry, this is beyond crap for you. Thinking of you and hoping the universe pulls a surprise out of it's sleeve.

Hope you're feeling better @ASGIRC

@Lauralozzle I'm so sorry - this whole thing can be such a head f*ck at times! Definitely worth considering asking about immune issues if this one doesn't stick - which is not a given! the progesterone has an annoying way of mimicking period symptoms, which could explain the cramping. Spotting or even light flow could also totally be explained. Do you have any cheapie tests rather than a FRER maybe to put you out of your misery? Personal decision of course. Thinking of you and keep us posted xx

@loulamay I only have x2 FRERs no cheapies. Stopped buying those about 2 years ago.

I’ve started researching already. I definitely want some more tests before a FET. Care do a test called careunity but it’s for recurrent miscarriages but it might point towards implantation failure. Not sure. Cost will have to come into it, but before the FET I might ask about Emma/Alice/ERA - that should check correct implantation period. No point in full blown DNA frag test as we have had SOS test and next two transfers will be FETS (if they both survive the thaw).

I’m concerned that I just don’t make it throughout the 2WW without bleeding. There must be something wrong as others don’t seem to start their periods whilst taking progesterone. There were tiny clots when I wiped about an hour ago, I don’t think progesterone irritation/implantation bleeds etc come with clots. I’m 99% sure I’m out and this is the start of my period. Hopefully it doesn’t last ten days this time!!!

So sorry @Lauralozzle, I really hoped you would get a different outcome. Sounds like you are being incredibly proactive- I remember looking at the care unity test and it didn't seem too pricy (in comparison to some of the other things!) And I don't know why but the blood stickiness issue seems quite logical to me, and blood thinners are I think one of the cheaper drugs. I've been put on them since being in hospital and the consultant was surprised I wasn't already as he thought everyone having IVF was automatically given blood thinners, which I thought was interesting.

@Lauralozzle what support therapy are you on? Do you only have progesterone suppositories or also injection? Many women get their period before their OTD if the transfer didn't work. I don't think that means that something is wrong.

@ttcsolomumtobe good luck with your egg collection, I think I did my pessary rectally that day (realise you can't do that) but they do clean your cervix anyway so won't be any issue if there's some pessary goo around!

@Charming81 Just the pessaries no injections. Think I’ll be asking for lubion next transfer.

Thanks everyone. I’m going to try and have a relaxed day today. Got to do my Nana’s food shop and then we’re taking her to a local-ish park for a little walk so it’ll be nice having a change of scenery for a few hours.