Demonstration against Israeli bombing of Gaza in London on Saturday.

[SmilleysPeople]

If anyone is intersted.

It's at 12.30pm along Embankment, nearest tubes Embankment and Charing Cross.

It's being organised by Palestinian Solidarity Campaign, Stop the War Coaltion and numerous other groups.

I will bump this sporadically, but if anyone else would like to help promote this, plaese bump too.

I will be there.

just saw a UN rep on channel 4 news, saying they cannot go about their humanitarian obligations on the ground

winkywinkola; I would like you to state that you wholeheartedly condemn the Israeli blockade of Gaza which has been enforced for month after month after month. I would also like you to state you wholeheartedly condemn the illegal occupation of Palestinian territory on the West Bank and that you wholeheartedly condemn the construction of illegal Israeli settlements. Oh and also the fact that the so called withdrawal from Gaza wa a lie - since Israel has maintained complete control of all Gaza's borders and airspace. Will you condemn those? will you?

oh and btw my accusations of racism: that post I quoted is a direct quote and is not taken out of any kind of mitigating context. It is racism and you know it.

Donnie. Answer the question. And, while you're at it, do you condemn the Hamas leader for threatening to kill Jewish children anywhere in the world? Not *Israeli^ children. Jewish

AFAIK. Israel is not threatening to kill Palestinian exiles in London.

Tosh, Donnie.

Are you talking about the mad, raving mullahs quote? There are lots of those. And mad raving rabbis. And mad raving reverends. And mad raving Hamas who want to kill Jewish children. Purely because they are Jewish.

I suspect that your views aren't that dissimilar.

You won't condemn Hamas' view that all Jews should be killed? Interesting.

I can't believe you have descended this informative, intelligent thread into a race issue, nice one Donnie.

I am referring to Lisalisa's admission that she sees ALL Palestinians as ' this murderous group of people'. Of course this is a racist comment as well you know.

I read a comment in the paper the other day that made sense to me: while either side believes that it can 'win' (ie, achieve all of its short- and long-term objectives) then the slaughter will continue. What is needed is some courage on both sides to admit that victory isn't an option for either of them.

Noooooooooo!

Rev, back to my earlier comment, you are not coming across or being portrayed as ill-informed, far from it so unless I have missed something?

at everything I saw on c4 news today. One thing is for sure, this violence on both sides is perpetuating the hatred, I can't see the end result being peace.

Ah no, I never said I don't condemn the blockade. One thing at a time.

I just wanted to establish Donnie's views first seeing as he / she is so very quick to bandy about accusations of racism.

But if Hamas are not to be reconciled to even the existence of a Jewish state and the Palestinian people have voted them into power, where can they possibly go from here?

It's so desperate and the Israelis will not concede to a cease fire again because Hamas will claim victory and not stop their rockets into civilian territory.

Surely Hamas must be got rid of somehow?

"Incidentally Israel has an enormously sophisticated media operation and puts a lot of money into international PR."

That's not working for them though, is it? They face condemnation for not putting up with rockets fired into their country.

I'm really curious to know what Obama will do with this poisoned chalice........

I imagine moderate Palestinians live in fear of speaking out against Hamas, TBH.

Palestinians suspected of colluding with Israelis are publicly murdered so I imagine the punishment for not supporting or being seen to support Hamas is grim.

R4 reported last week of a family who left their apartment block during the night after receiving a phone call from the IDC telling them that they were likely to be bombed. They didn't tell their neighbours, such is the fear of retribution for being suspected of involvement with Israelis.

IDF.

If Israel was pursuing a zero sum outcome , winner takes all, that is - the utter destruction of the enemy - we would all have seen a mushroom cloud above the West Bank and Gaza by now. If Hama's had nuclear capablities, we would undobtedly see a mushroom cloud above Israel - that is their explicit aim, to erase Israel.

Israel's tactics might be flawed, immoral, brutilising, self defeating - like I said before - if these were people they would be severely traumatised and combative - no body would still be encouraging them to fight on. They'd be locked up for their own good - both of them.

But in one tactic they differ. Hamas is trying to push Israel into the sea. Israel is just trying to stand its ground.

Obama has said, something to the effect of, if someone were lauching rockets into my house, where my children slept, I would use any force possible to stop the people who were doing that.

Sounds like he thinks there's no such thing as 'proportional response' when your chuldren are threatened. I see his point. If someone even slapped my child (even if they were poor and puny and I was strong and wealthy) never mind attemnted to murder them, the phrase proportional response is revealed as meaningless.

Spot on bubble

Thank you Policywonk. You summed up in one sentence what i've been laboriously trying to point out.

Revjustabout...Thank God there are a few people like you brave enough to go out there and report simple facts UNBIASED.

Monkeytrousers you are really trying but am afraid your rambling is not very coherent. I vaguely remember pevious posts on similar topics. You try to sound informed but you are not really. But I command your efforts. Not everybody bothers trying to understand Islam.