Why didn't the Allies bomb Auschwitz

[Gwenick]

Just read this link

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4175045.stm

It's all very well asking now - "should we have bombed it" - but then what would we be saying if we HAD - it would probably be something along the lines - of "OMG look how many innocent Jews we killed trying to 'save' them".

What about those Jews who survived, and have gone to on to get married and have children, or those that survived and were reunited with family members?? How would the families feel now if we'd bombed them?? I don't think it would have helped bombing them - the Nazi's would only have found somewhere/somehow else to persecute the Jews.

Opinions please (nice controversial one for a Sunday afternoon ;-)

I mean of course, friends, colleagues and family members who are jewish.
i am not jewish.

stunning post lisa lisa
Zionist conspiracies, world domination, wealth power, these allegations do not belong in a discussion about the holocaust.
It almost seems like people have been giving a reason as to why the massacres happened, ie an explanation for why Hitler was drawn into doing what he did!!!!!!!!
Because Hitler (and his allies) were evil is why, and there is no other explanation needed.

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I'm shocked by this thread too and in response to the initial subject, yes yes yes yes the allies should have bombed Auschwitz and every route to it to smithereens IMO. If it stopped the death machine working than absolutely we should have bombed it. I don't think the deaths of those there on that day is enough of a moral impediment to justify the ethical argument for disabling the death camps.
I have always understood that the British government simply didn't believe the reports from Auschwitz, and that they didn't think it a high priority and were in addition strongly anti-semitic. Sorry, but isn't that all broadly agreed and widely attested in modern history except by cranks?

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Piffle - I agree that this thread has some disturbing posts on it, but I don't think it's enough just to say 'Hitler was evil'. We need to understand why people were seduced by his abominable ideology, why he gained political power and why so many, apparently cultured people went along with what he did. This seems to me absolutely essential to making sure that we avoid similar atrocities in future. The problem is that trying to explain anti-semitism, or other forms of hatred, in terms of social, economic, cultural or political causes, can be taken up people who wilfully misunderstand this attempt and take it as a justification for anti-semitism. There is a huge academic literature on the historical roots of anti-semitism in Germany, and elsewhere in Europe. Many people have tried to show that how and why anti-semitism was always there, but was massively increased during the Post WWI Depression, as people battened onto it as a simplistic explanation for their problems.

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IIRC, after the First WW the Allies 'punished' Germany (Treaty of Versailles?) by exacting extreme reparations, setting severe restrictions on their economy and forbidding any rearmament by the Germans. This had the effect of destroying the German economy and humiliating the German nation. Direct result: a charismatic (if insane) leader who arose during a time of appalling inflation and hardship for the Germans, and who promised them a resurgence of their power and empire.

This was also one fo the reasons that after the 2nd WW the Allies spent so much time, money and effort rebuilding Germany - to try and prevent a repeat.

Louise1974 you said:

"It is my opinion from reading this whole thread that gwenick is an outright racist, I feel sick to my stomach about her comments on "the jew" in her family."

I feel it is only fair to point out that Gwenick is married to a black Zimbaweane. Her children are mixed race. So she is in no way racist. Please do not label and pass judgement on someone you do not know.

Ocean, actually you amaze me with that statement!! Being married to a Zimbawean does not exclude one from being racist!! Nor does having mixed race children.
I would have thought this was obvious. Racism is not only directed at one race you know.

Also you say "she is in no way racist" And you ask me not to label someone I do not know...but isn't this exactly what you are doing. You do not know Gwenick any more than I do but she feel you know enough to label her a Non racist.

The difference being in my post I actually said "In my opinion" And I stand by that opinion I have formed from Gwenick.

Blimey, I thought that all races were capable of racism. The people who did the butchery in Rawanda were African, that didn't mean that they weren't racist. I don't think that you get an 'out' based on who you marry any more than you do by prefacing your statement by 'some of my best friends are jewish/asain/black but '

Exactly happymerryberries! Well said. Some of the ignorance on this thread is astounding.

Lisalisa, I know all I seem to do on this thread is to applaud other people's posts as if I don't have an original thought in my head, but I have to say that was a searing and fantastically moving post. Thank you.

actually Louise - Ocean and I have 'known' each other for a considerable length of time on other websites around the web - not all baby related either. So I think she does 'know' me better than you do.

Gwenick the fact that ocean and yourself know of each other on other sites throughout the web does actually not surprise me in the least.

Louise, the only ignorance shown on this thread is from you. You seem to think you know everything, about everyone, but you do not.

Having relatives who suffered does not give you, or anyone, the right to be so nasty and bitchy about people you do not know, just because you do not like their posts.

I am sure I will get flamed for saying this, but it does seem that the lessons that should have been learned from WW2 about intolerance and labelling have missed out some. Ironically it seems, the very ones you would think would know better. But I am not suprised. I have come across this attitude many times.

Cheap and quick way to "win" a discussion, isn't it, to label someone anti-semite or racist? Never mind the facts that they clearly are not, it puts them in a pretty hard place to get out of.

I'll bet you are the type who calls the Ultra Orthodox Jews "self-hating Jews", aren't you, because they do not agree with the state of Israel?

Louise - if you wish to read more of my opinions on things such as racism and other controversial topics just do a 'google' for Gwenick - it's the same username I use all over the web and there's plenty - some on sites that I don't htink Ocean has even visited that is there for you to view.

Oh and if you still don't believe me perhaps you'd like the phone number for my cousin and her Jewish husband and ask what their opinion of me is???

Gwenick the very fact that you are offering me your relatives phone number to "prove" you are not a racist is completely laughable and if anything just "proves" your level of maturity.

To be honest I have nothing else to say to either you or ocean...I mean if you can't even understand that racism is not directed at one race then iam wasting my breath as you clearly do not have the mental capabilities for a reasoned argument.

I will say this s-l-o-w-l-y Just because you post all over the web that you are married to a Zimbaweane and have mixed race children does NOT mean you are not capable orf racism toward other races ..ie the jewish race.

Do you understand that! Equally just because your brother in law will speak to me on the phone and tell me you are not racist does NOT mean you are not.

There I've put it in very simple terms for you to understand as you seem to have a complete misunderstanding about racism.
Iam going to try and ignore your ramblings now as both you and ocean have absolutly nothing to say that makes any sense.
To be honest I find some of the things you have both said about the jewish completly nauseating.
So I will leave it at that.

PMSL - Louise lets get a few facts straight

If you can't understand a litlte sarcasm once in a while that's not my problem

I think a racist would find it very difficult to keep up their level of 'not be a racist' for over 4yrs online!

Where did I say racism was directed at one race??? No where - someone else may have said it but [I] didn't - I know full well it can.

My brother inlaw probably wouldn't speak to you on the phone - one of them is at University in zimbabwe (and doesn't have a phone) the other is usually out getting drunk or high (the 'black sheep' of the family - please excuse the expression) - However, my cousins husband probably would speak to you

I'm sorry that you think I don't have the mental capacities for a reasoned argument. I'm pleased to say that over 4yrs debating online (and almost 10yrs using the net) that the majority of people don't feel that way.

I find it very sad that people feel they have to stoop to throwing accusations at people just because they don't agree with their comments

I'm just going to finish this post (because I'm such an incompetent debater with something that Crunchie said in the 'other' thread

"I have found that when I first learnt about the holocaust I was taught it WAS ONLY JEWS!! I found out much later that it also included 'others'."

And Crunchie is a Jew.

Louise, I wouldn't waste your time trying to explain anything to those two .
Errr.. Ocean where did louise mention anything about her relatives being hurt??? Did I miss something?
Both gwenick and ocean sound like they are in the playground. Grow up!

L and g calm down!

this si a web site
no one knows eahc other, cnat see that you are oing to achieve anything here

LOL - CharlieZ - and how many debates have you been involved with Ocean or myself???? It seems you think you know a lot about me just by reading one thread!